Judy wrote: > Yes he had a flesh and blood body with the same > limitations as the ones we have only he was not > "just like us" David. The difference is one of heart/holiness > and God gave the Spirit without measure to Him (John 3:34) > We have nothing like that going on... and the Spirit quickens > mortal bodies.
I think we face here some differences in what our words mean. Let me say first that all the works of the flesh are not just limited to the flesh when a man yields to them. Obeying the flesh defiles the soul and defiles the spirit. Therefore, things like envy, murder, etc. can be works not just of the flesh, but of our soul and heart when we have given ourselves over to following the flesh. This is how I reconcile verses like Gal. 5:19 and James 1:14 which attribute these things to the flesh, with verses like Mat. 15:19 and 2 Cor. 7:1 which show evil to be something deeper within man. It seems to me that in your terminology, you use the word flesh not to refer to the physical body and behavior that might emanate from it, but as a metaphor to refer to all evil behavior regardless of its source. Therefore, when I say that Jesus had a flesh like ours, you think that I am saying that the sinfulness that characterizes men was a characteristic of Jesus. That is not what I am saying. If you have tasted holiness and the deliverance from the power of sin within us, then you should have a good sense of the victory over the flesh that Jesus experienced. I believe that Jesus lived this victory all his life (unlike us) because he was unique, he was the Son of God, his spirit was strong from the beginning over the flesh, his mind was upon God from the very beginning, he was empowered with the Spirit without measure. From my perspective, all of this gave him power over whatever desires of his flesh that would be contrary to God. Therefore, he became perfect through suffering, just like us. He experienced intense temptation, the greatest when he went to the cross and sweat drops of blood as his flesh cried out against the course he had taken but his spirit and soul kept the course, contrary to the desires of his flesh. Something else about terminology. I suspect that what you might call flesh, I would call soul. So when you hear me use the word flesh, your mind is thinking about his soul, and you cannot imagine Jesus with a wicked soul. I certainly agree that Jesus did not have a wicked soul. Jesus was righteous and pure in every way. Much of my perspective from my terms comes from recognizing that when Paul said "flesh" he meant flesh, as in physical body. History helps me accept this because I understand the Greek mindset of those Paul wrote his letters to, the Platonic, mindset which drew a sharp dichotomy between the material and the spiritual, with the material world being that which is subject to corruption and change and evil, but the spiritual world that which is perfect and pure and the archetype for the material world. Biology helps me accept this because it is completely materialistic and almost all biologists deny any existence of soul and spirit. Biologists explain all behavior with only the perspective of the physical, namely, the flesh and genetics. I realize that you are likely to think that my studies and educational background put me at a disadvantage, perhaps polluting the way I read the Bible, but I sincerely tell you that I think just the opposite in this particular case. I think it has helped me tremendously to understand the issues Paul was raising with words like flesh, carnal, spirit, mind, etc. Peace be with you. David Miller. ---------- "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed. If you have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed.
