Beginning with verse 18, everywhere in this passage, Judy, Paul is presenting a circumstance that is of one's own doing AND, in some ways, common to all of us (R 2:1). That inward "pull" of God is gone ("God gave them up" to their own influences). A person who is truly "demon possessed" is one who requires an exorcist. Romans chapters 1-7 is all about man's inhumanity to himself and God's gracious intervention. Demon possession is nowhere implied (IMO).
Jd
-----Original Message-----
From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Cc: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Mon, 22 Aug 2005 09:03:32 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
What do you call those in Romans 1 who were holding the truth in unrighteousness and
who God gave over to a reprobate mind to act in ways that are filthy and unclean? These
ppl once had the truth. Also those being led away by their own lusts must have at one time
been in a place they could be led away from. How demonized must they be to meet
your standard JD? Then we should ask ourselves if your standard is the same as Gods.
On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 19:07:01 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
James might tell us that they are led away BY THEIR OWN LUSTS.Keep in mind that I am not denying the existence of demons. I just do not believethat a Christian can be demon possessed. The example you give, below, does notdescribe a disciple. JDFrom: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>
And what about those who say they are Christian giving Him lip service but whose hearts are farfrom Him and who deny Him by their very actions and/or lifestyle?On Sun, 21 Aug 2005 18:29:05 -0400 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:I do not make much of the silence of the scripture in terms of dogma. My reference to the absence of a demonic Christian is partnered with a number of biblical references i.e. the binding of the strong man.I would simply thing the answer to the last question in your post to "yes - if we are not talking about rejection of the Lord."
-----Original Message-----
From: Charles Perry Locke <cpl2602@hotmail.com>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 06:23:23 -0700
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
I happen to agree with you, John, but absence of an example in the Bible does not prove it. In your statement, the question might be can a Christian not have his mind set on the Spirit and still be a Christian.
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
>Date: Sun, 21 Aug 2005 01:37:47 -0400
>
>Christian's cannot have demons, Linda. Don't listen to me on this. Just >go to your bible and try to find one who did .................... not >there. As long as the mind is set on the Spirit to any degree, it can't >happen. It didn't even happen in the OT
> & gt;Jd
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Judy Taylor <jandgtaylor1@juno.com>
>To: truthtalk@mail.innglory.org
>Sent: Sat, 20 Aug 2005 23:14:19 -0400
>Subject: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
>
>
>
>From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>You are asking the wrong question, as I wonder about these things myself
>from time to time. Can a true Believer have a demon? Be "oppress ed"? Be
>possessed? What's the difference??? I'd like to hear other opinions. izzy
>
>jt: Yes, Yes, and No. We need to understand that there are two kingd om's
>involved here and the Christian is in the process of transferring from one >to
>the other. We are all oppressed from time to time and God allows the enemy
>to test us. Years ago I read a book called "Blumhardt's battle" about a >German
>pastor with a severely demonized parishoner. He spent many hours praying
>with her and declaring the victory of Chr ist until she was entirely free. >jt
>
>
>From: TruthTalk-owner@mail.innglory.org
>
>Are all illnesses "demonic" in your opinion -- whether physical or mental >or
>a combination of both? Martin Luther was a textbook bi-polar. Do you think
>that precluded him from being a "Christian," as in a tru e believer?
>
>Just curious what you think, Bill
>
>
>From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > Really interesting analogies, Judy and David. I'll think about that a
>lot.
> > By the way, the enem ies in the land comment leads me to ask if anyone
>knows
> > what is the underlying problem with people who are commonly labeled
> > "Bi-polar"--up one day and low the next, and seem to me to always be
>looking
> > for someone to be angry with. They are commonly treated with lithium.
>I've
> > been around someone like tha t the last couple of weeks (who says she is >a
> > Christian by the way), and it seems demonic to me. izzy
> >
> > -----Original Messag e-----
> > From: TruthTalk-owner@mail.innglory.org
> > [mailto:TruthTalk-owner@mail.innglory.org] On Behalf Of David Miller
> > Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2005 12:00 PM
> > To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
> > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Adam - sin - and the rest of us
> >
> > David Miller wrote:
> > >> The concept that the Holy Spirit is working to convict
> > >> believers of various sins, such as stealing, lust,
> > >> covetousness, etc. is dangerous.
> >
> > Judy wrote:
> > > Why do you see this as dangerous David?
> >
> > Because people confuse the voice of the Spirit with their own inner ;
> > convictions. Furthermore, they misinterpret the work of the Holy >Spirit,
> > and therefore ascribe works to him which are not his. This leads to
>error.
> >
> > Judy wrote:
> > > Being conformed to the "image of Christ"
> > > does not happen overnight. It is a process,
> > > just as salvation itself is a process of past,
> > > present, futur e.
> >
> > It depends which image of Christ you are talking about. Are you talking
> > about him in his now glorified state? You bet that is a process. Are >you
> > talking about Christ as an infant lying in a manger? No, that is not a
> > process. That is an event called being born again.
> >
> > Judy wrote:
> > > An object lesson is given us in scripture ... when
> > > after Israel celebrated the passover and God led
> > > them supernaturally to the promised la nd. They
> > > were instructed to go in and take the land which
> > > He would give to them little by little. He did < BR>> > > not clear the land all at one time because they would
> > > not be strong enough to hold it. (Exodus 23:29,30)
> >
> > Good object lesson, but look at it closely. They were no longer slaves >in
> > Egypt at this point. Once they crossed that Red Sea and the waters >killed
> > the Egyptians that were pursuing them, they were saved. They had
> > deliverance from bondage to Egypt, which represents our deliverance from
>the
> >
> > bondage of sin to this world system. What they lacked was possessing >the
> > promised land, the kingdom of God. This is where faith comes in, and >this
> > is where the process of growth is important.
> >
> > We are immediately de livered, but love still is perfected. I may not >sin,
> > but that d oes not mean that I cannot love better. Yesterday I may have
> > helped someone who came looking to me for help, but today I might seek >out
> > those who need help. Yesterday, I might have known how to lead someone >to
>a
> >
> > hospital to get help, but today I might pray for him to be healed
>instantly
> > and thereby better help him in his situation. Jesus at one time did no
> > miracles, but his obedience and love were perfected at that time when he
>did
> >
> > minister in miracles and healed the sick, and ultimately gave his life a
> > ransom for all, the ultimate _expression_ of love which he did when he was
> > more than 33 years old, not when he was 5 years old.
> >
> ; > Judy wrote:
> > > Likewise when w e surrender our lives to Christ
> > > we also have enemies on the land (our heart) ...
> >
> > You have the wrong analogy here, Judy. The enemies of our own heart >were
> > when we were in Egypt, or the unbelief when God tells us to possess his
> > kingdom and we say such is impossible. The enemies in the land, the
> > Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, and the Hittites, and >the
> > Perizzites, and the Rephaims, and the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and
>the
> > Girgashites, and the Jebusites... these enemies represent not defects of
>our
> >
> > own heart, but enemies in the air, principalities and powers and rulers >of
> > darkness and spiritual wickedness in high places which inspire people to
>act
> >
> > contrary to us and to mock us and to hate us and kill us.
> >
> > Judy wrote:
> > > Those of us who are honest will admit that we
> > > were walking in most of Galatians 5:19,21 if not all.
> >
> > "WERE" is the proper tense. Why do you try and resurrect it to present
> > tense?
> >
> > Judy wrote:
> > > That the land of our heart is inhabited by some enemies
> > > is evident by what comes out of our mouths (at times).
> >
> > Nothing de filing comes out of my mouth anymore. Once it had, yes, but >not
> > anymore. I'm sure my rebukes or corrections appear otherwise to some on
> > this list, as they like to point to such things as evidence of my
> > sinfulness, but God knows what is good and right and what is not. Men >of
> > w ickedness lack discernment of such things.
> >
> > Peace be with you.
> > David Miller.
> >
> > ----------
> > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may
>know
> > how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
> > http://www.InnGlory.org
> >
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> >
> >
> >
> > ----------
> > "Let your speech be always with grac e, seasoned with salt, that you may
>know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
>http://www.InnGlory.org
> >
> > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to
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> >
> >
>
>
>----------
>"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may >know
>how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
>http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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>----------
>"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may >know how you ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6) >http://www.InnGlory.org
>
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