DAVEH: I have a slightly different perspective on this, Dean. I view
the situation in TT as having a few members believing they have all the
truth, and the whole truth, and they endeavor to dispense it as they
feel it is needed....whether others feel they need it or not. The
problem is that sometimes what they purport is not the truth. That is
evidenced by some of the disagreements of TTers, in which it is highly
unlikely that two holding diametrically opposed beliefs can both be
right.
Now I've seen some mention names of those who are trustworthy in
regard to the truth. Dean, your name is one that was recently
mentioned as being a pretty trustworthy guy. However, I sometimes see
things in your posts that are not true, yet other TTers assume they are
true....simply because you and others have repeated the same lies over
and over. So.....I don't have that same comfortable feeling in placing
my trust in what you say as others have.
An example of this is your below comment.......
Their Jesus is only God of this world because he
Believed upon a God whom had sex with Mary.
..........which is not true. Not only do I not believe that, I have so
stated such on numerous occasions. And of all the LDS folks I know,
none believe such. Yet several TTers continue to make that
accusation. So I am amazed that you/they do not quite understand why I
don't take their other comments seriously. I'm sure you sometimes
preach truth, Dean....but mixing obvious lies with it does you no
favors as I see it.
For you to warn TTers from getting confused by anything I
say.....seems to me that the blind are leading the blind, so to speak.
If you really want to exercise Damage control
Dean, perhaps you should first consider correcting your own errors,
lest you deceive them with outright lies. Otherwise, the Damage will be to your own
credibility.
Dean Moore wrote:
-----
Original Message -----
Sent:
10/16/2005 10:00:04 PM
Subject:
Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter
I know that some of what Dave believes has no
basis in the Holy Bible. That can very likely be said to some extent
about each of us. Traditions die hard. No one seems willing to admit
that grandpa was an idiot for believing some of the things he did.
Instead, we follow in grandpa's footsteps until the warning light comes
on and we check it out in the Word and learn better what to believe.
Since Dave is all wet and we are only a little damp, the temptation is
to write him off. The problem is, none of us know how far God's mercy
extends. If He looks at Dave's heart, or your heart, or my heart, and
sees selfless love for Him, does that make up for buying into false
teachings? If so, how far off base can you be and still be acceptable
to God? I do not know, so I also must accept Dave as a believer since
that is his claim; still, I can't help but think that believing that
Jesus and Satan were brothers is pushi ng it, really testing the mercy
of God.
cd: see DaveH this is why I come
here-to correct this type of belief. Damage control.
Terry if I have said anything to help
you come to this conclusion I apologized for not explaining myself
better. Yes one can be saved by simply believing upon Christ as the way
of forgiveness but it must be the Christ of the Bible-A Jesus who has
been with God from the beginning-a Jesus whom is part of the trinity
Mormon do not hold this view they have three separate Gods.Their
Jesus is only God of this world because he Believed upon a God whom had
sex with Mary.
================================================================
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I have highlighted something you said,
Terry, that is of great importance to me. DaveH recently
spoke of Christ being his redeemer and Savior. I make the same
claim. IN THAT DECLARATION, he and I are brothers. We do not
express that claim in the same ways -- but the claim is the
same. And JESUS is the Savior, not the church, or the preacher, or the prophet of
God. It is before his own
Master that he stands or falls, and he will be made to stand !!!! (Ro
14:4). Is he or other claimants saved?&nbs p; I don't know.
But I do know that Rom ans 14:4 should have something to say in that discussion. I do know, that
the words "God works all things for good to them who love the Lord
and ....." probably includes things that have to do with my
salvation. He takes the wrong I do, does not bring it into account,
and [thus] works a good that benefits me eternally.
Thanks for the words
Jd
-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Clifton <wabbits1234@earthlink.net>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sun, 16 Oct 2005 19:34:19 -0500
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter
Up to a point, I am in agreement with you, Dave. When John
wrote of Jesus, he recorded something very interesting that we find in
chapter five, about the middle of verse twenty-eight.."the hour is
coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice and come
forth -- those who have done good to the resurrection of life,
and those who have done evil to the resurrection of
condemnation."
Jesus was stating that He had the authority not only to raise the
dead, but also to judge them, sending some to Hell and inviting others
to live eternally with Him. From other things that He said in other
scriptures, we know that these are not the only things taken into
consideration. You can do all the good works you can do, for as long
as you can do them, and still go to Hell if your faith is not in Christ
as your Savior. Evidently one can also claim to be a follower o f
Christ but the evil pattern of one's life makes a lie o f one's claim
and that person is also condemned to Hell. Those who deny self,
follow Christ, shun evil and do good get the reward.
Mother Teresa, it was reported at one time, was not sure of her
salvation. How true that is I do not know. If she did her works out
of love for her Savior and her fellow man, she most certainly will be
closer to the throne than me, but if she did these works hoping they
would save her, she is begging for a drop of water at this moment and
will be forever. I strongly feel that she did her works out of love,
but like you, I am in no position to judge. We are clearly taught that
we are not to judge another's works. Jesus will handle that without
our help, and that is a good thing.
I have an opinion about everyone on this list, but I am not qualified
to say who is saved and who is not. I do not know your heart, or Izzy's
, and you do not know mine. We all claim Christ as our
savior. All we can do without evidence to the contrary is accept one
another on the basis of that claim. It is soooo tempting to say
"He or she does not believe as I do, therefore he or she cannot be
saved ."
"If they were saved, they would believe as I do", is our pride
speaking. We have become modern day Pharisees.
We have it all figured out.
Once we get the beam out of our eye though, we are commanded not to
throw pearls to swine or a holy sacrifice to the dogs. If we do not
make a judgment call, how do we tell the hogs and dogs from the Holy?
It is important to know, because if you do what you are commanded not
to do, they w ill turn and tear you to pieces. It is pretty obvio
u s that you should not go into a Mosque in Iraq and start preaching
Jesus and calling Allah a false god. They would tear the pieces to
pieces. The same thing might happen if you preached against looting in
the middle of a race riot. But where is the line? At what point can
we say this is a hog and this is a dog, and this one needs to hear
about Christ? Do we draw the line at holy underwear? Does smoking
make you a hog or a dog? If you think you can sin tonight and do
penance tomorrow, are you a hog or not? What if you preach salvation
without repentance? Are you a holy because you preach, or are you a dog
because you don't mention repentance?
It's a good thing God looks at the heart. Yes sir, a real good thing.
Terry
Dave Hansen wrote:
DAVEH: Sorry about
that, Lance. I had hoped you would understand the underlying humor in
my answer.
To give you a serious answer, let me offer the example of what I
perceive to be true of Mother Theresa. Neither you or I believe that
the RCC folks espouse true
theology, yet apparently MT
was a true Christian due to her love of those who were disadvantaged.
Is there any truer Christian than one who gives her (or his) life to
others? I don't think so.
There are many Christian folk who believe in doct rines that I
think are in error. From my perspectiv e that does not make them any
less Christian than one how professes true doctrine, but yet whose
works demonstrate no motivation for being a Christian. There are a lot
of goodly (and Godly) sincere Christians in the world who believe
opposing doctrines. It is not for me to judge them as inadequate in
the Lord's eyes. I'll leave the judging to the Judge, and as for
myself.....I'll try to worry more about how to treat others with
respect even though I may disagree with their beliefs.
Lance Muir wrote:
I'm not asking you to speak
for God, Dave. I'm asking for you to speak within the context of your
own tradition.
You may recall my various
attempts to address the question 'Who is Jesus?'. Now, whatever the
variance within the Christian tradition(s) (I do not consider Mormonism Christian),
there isn't simply a 'variance' between you and I.
FWIW,
I DO BELIEVE that such as Mormons,
Jehovah's Witnesses and Christadelphians MAY be
born from above even through a maze of heretical
beliefs (IMO).
DAVEH:
How would I know, Lance??? Perhaps Brother Dean can answer that
question from his personal experience! :-D
Lance Muir wrote:
Is it possible for one
to have a true heart connection (be born from above) with God through
Christ by the Spirit while espousing beliefs via one's dogma that are
intrinsically unreal (false)?
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
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STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Dave Hansen
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.langlitz.com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you wish to receive
things I find interesting,
I maintain six email lists...
JOKESTER, OPINIONS, LDS,
STUFF, MOTORCYCLE and CLIPS.
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