Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Sun, 23 Oct 2005 05:22:47 -0700

Shore sounds like good advice to me.
 
Jd 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dean Moore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 07:45:00 -0400
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

cd: My question is-How could any Mormon not know this is common knowledge for them. Yet we have one that claims to never have heard this or any of the information I have shared. Mormon crap indeed. Be shore to stand by untruth till the end JD-Tie yourself tightly to the sinking ship while you can by helping him cover up truth.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 10/23/2005 12:52:43 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

Here we see it could not be a TEST TUBE:
"And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says" (Mormon Doctrine, p. 742).
 
"Christ was Begotten by an immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers" (Bruce McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pg.547).
 
What could this literal flesh refer to in contrast to "as well as in the spirit"?
Joseph Fielding Smith "The birth of the Savior was a natural occurrence unattended by any degree of mysticism, and the Father God was the literal parent of Jesus in the flesh as well as in the spirit" (Religious Truths Defined, p.44).
 
Fathered by FLESH?
Carfred Broderick (Mormon author) writes: "God is a procreating personage of flesh and bone...latter-day prophets have made it clear that despite what it says in Matthew 1:20, the Holy Ghost was not the father of Jesus...The Savior was fathered by a personage of flesh and bone" (Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought, Autumn, 1967, p.100-101).
 
How does one pass the seed?
"The Father had a Son, a natural Son, his own literal Seed, the Offspring of his body" (Bruce McConkie, The Promised Messiah, pg.355).
 
"There is no need to spiritualize away the plain meaning of the scriptures. There is nothing figurative or hidden or beyond comprehension in our Lord's coming into mortality. He is the Son of God in the same sense and way that we are the sons of mortal fathers. It is just that simple" (The Promised Messiah, pg.468).
 
'' l believe the Father came down from heaven, as the Apostles said he did, and begat the Savior of the World; for He is the Only Begotten of the Father which could not have been if the Father did not actually beget him in person''. (Young Journal of Discourses Vol. 1 page 238)
 
What is the difference?
''When the time came that His first-born, the Savior, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Savior was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits, and that is all the organic difference between Jesus Christ and you and me.'' (Journal of Discourses Vol. 4 page 218)
 
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost" (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg.7).
 
"The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood - was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers" (Journal of Discourses, Brigham Young, 8:115).
 
"And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events, for he is the Son of God, and that designation means what it says" (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, pg.742).
 
"Christ was begotten of God. He was NOT born without the aid of man and that man was God!" (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1:18)


Kevin Deegan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
So if it does not specifically say sex or intercourse it can't refer to such?
 
Please show us where the Bible says "God is a man"
Please show us where the bible says God is "one in purpose"
 
Why does your "god" have an erection?
Just one of his body parts and bodily passions?
who is the recipient of his "bodily passions"?

Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
DAVEH:   OK Dean.....Kevin has posted quite a bit of material below.  Please point out where any of those quoted use the term intercourse or sex.  Lacking that, it would seem you've been misquoting/misstating/misunderstanding their comments.

Dean Moore wrote:
Thank you Kevin for this helpful info-To the other members on this site-I think some type of Mormon spirit have taking hold of most here.
 
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: 10/22/2005 12:26:34 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter

CONTEXT JD!
 
Can't you ever get it straight?
 
Who said what?
'' l believe the Father came down from heaven, as the Apostles said he did, and begat the Savior of the World; for He is the Only Begotten of the Father which could not have been if the Father did not actually beget him in person''. (Young Journal of Discourses Vol. 1 page 238)
 
''When the time came that His first-born, the Savior, should come into the world and take a tabernacle, the Father came Himself and favoured that spirit with a tabernacle instead of letting any other man do it. The Savior was begotten by the Father of His spirit, by the same Being who is the Father of our spirits, and that is all the organic difference between Jesus Christ and you and me.'' (Journal of Discourses Vol. 4 page 218)
 
AND the quote that we were discussing (CONTEXT)
''The birth of the Savior was as natural as are the births of our children ; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood--was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers'' (Journal of Discourses Vol. 8 page 115)
 
Your argument is with the LDS! Brigham was VERY confused
 
"Christ was begotten by an Immortal Father in the same way that mortal men are begotten by mortal fathers," (Mormon Doctrine, 1966, page 547.)
 
"And Christ was born into the world as the literal Son of this Holy Being; he was born in the same personal, real, and literal sense that any mortal son is born to a mortal father. There is nothing figurative about his paternity; he was begotten, conceived and born in the normal and natural course of events,...Christ is the Son of Man, meaning that his Father (the Eternal God!) is a Holy Man." (Mormon Doctrine, by Bruce McConkie, page 742.)
 
In relation to the way in which I look upon the works of God and his creatures, I will say that I was naturally begotten; so was my father, and also my Savior Jesus Christ. According to the Scriptures, he is the first begotten of his father in the flesh, and there was nothing unnatural about it. ?Heber C. Kimball, Journal of discourses, 8:211
 
'Now Remember from this time forth, and forever, that Jesus Christ was not begotten by the Holy Ghost. ...But what do the people in Christendom, with the Bible in their hands, know but this subject? Comparatively Nothing."(Brigham Young, Journal of Discourses, Vol. 1:50-51)
 
"Christ was begotten of God. He was NOT born without the aid of man and that man was God!" (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1:18)
 
"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints proclaims that Jesus Christ is the Son of God in the most literal sense. The body in which He performed His mission in the flesh was sired by that same Holy Being we worship as God, our Eternal Father. Jesus was not the son of Joseph, nor was He begotten by the Holy Ghost" (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, pg.7).
 
Now try paying attention Junior  : )
Begotten has nothing at all to do with the birth of Jesus, folks.   Good thing I stick around or some of you would really get confused  !!
 
Jd 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Kevin Deegan <openairmission@yahoo.com>
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Fri, 21 Oct 2005 13:10:56 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Re:The HEART of the matter
Chidren are NOT Begotten in a Test Tube.
 
Jesus was the ONLY Begotten of the Father!
QUESTION
How are Children Begotten????????
Can you answer this DaveH?

Dean Moore <cd_moore@earthlink.net> wrote:
. cd: Daveh you big cry baby-Claiming I am a liar after all the back
stabbing comments-By your standards then- when have I ever back
stabbed-show me proof or ask for forgiveness. As I understand the below-the
union between God and Mary was natural-then you say it was a genetic test
tube type babby-Then your prophet (seer)Orson Pratt whom Mormons claim are
never wrong (remember the brain washing of having to repeat over and over
"the prophet is never wrong") said she wasn't a virgin. Have you ever heard
of blasphemy(ie.accusing God of sin)?You and your cult are full of poop you
are a stench in the nostrils of God -a "fart" best describes you a nd your
cult.
> >
> >The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our
children;
> >it was the result of natural action

(though not necessarily sexual) whereby
> >the genetic makeup of our Heavenly Father was combined with Mary's
genetic makeup to bring forth a child in as natural a fashion as science now
> >teaches.
> >
> LDS theology teaches that Mary was a virgin.
> >
> > > >considering how LDS folks think or believe.
> >
> > Probably the most extremely opinionated person quoted was Orson
Pratt in The Seer, which was a highly speculative book based on OP's opinions.

> >Despite being an LDS leader, his opinions are no subs titute for official
> >do c trine, which is found in the Standard Works.


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