Re: [TruthTalk] 'Calvin's beliefs are of Satan-He was an evil man' says Dean Moore

[Judy Taylor]

What in the world is "theological history?"  Is it religious history revised every seven years or so as is secular history?  How about fair treatment for Servetus?  He may have been a deceived astrologer but he was not a murderer.   On Mon, 28 Nov 2005 05:47:15 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > You, David, write as a student of theological history. This is a fair treatment of Calvin. Thanks for this. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org> > Sent: November 27, 2005 19:39 > Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] 'Calvin's beliefs are of Satan-He was an > evil man' > says Dean Moore > > > > Dean wrote: > >> -No I did not read the entire work-but as you know > >> we can know a tree by its fruit-when A Saints plan > >> and carries out a gruesome death of another Christian > >> and later shows no remorse they have nothing that I > >> want to study to find truth. > > > > Such a comment tells me that you do not understand the history of > Calvin. > > Be careful not to rest your judgment of another on gossip.  I'm > not a fan > > of > > Calvin, as you know, but he should be criticized fairly if he is > > criticized, > > not judged for what others have done in his name.  Most of > Calvinism today > > stems from Calvin's student Beza, and much of it today is not > recognizable > > in the writings of Calvin himself > > > > Dean wrote: > >> No matter evil begets evil and two wrongs do not > >> make a right.Here are a couple of questions you > >> should answer: > >> 1.Can J.Calvin be scripturally justified for putting > >> Michael Servetus to death? > > > > Calvin never put Servetus to death.  He reported him to the > authorities, > > and > > as a lawyer and theologian, he presented evidence in a court of > law.  The > > Council of Geneva are the ones who put him to death.  In fact, he > had > > already been convicted in Vienne where he was living under a false > name > > and > > lied to authorities in a court of law about who he was.  He lied > about > > many > > material facts, and then escaped prison when pretending to go to > the > > outhouse. > > > > Dean wrote: > >> 2.Does a murderous hate,such as Calvin had,render one > >> spiritually unable to accurately interpret the scriptures > >> (1Cor.2:14; 1 Jn 2:9-11) > > > > How can you know of a murderous hate in Calvin?  What are you > talking > > about? > > I'm not aware of Calvin murdering anyone.  Are you?  Please, be > careful > > not > > to trust in rumors and gossip. > > > > Dean wrote: > >> 3. Can a unrepentant be saved (1 Jn3:15, Rev 21:8)? > > > > What has Calvin not repented of? > > > > Can a liar and astrologer be saved?  Servetus was both a liar and > an > > astrologer.  Does he get a free pass from you?  Why do you refer > to him as > > "innocent"? > > > > Dean wrote: > >> History states that Sarvetus begged for pity from Calvin > >> (who used green wood as to make him suffer longer)for > >> 3 hours and received none. Do you believe Calvin will > >> receive any from God? > > > > Something is wrong with the history books you are reading.  Calvin > is the > > one who begged Servetus to recant his erroneous positions so that > his life > > might be spared.  Calvin visited Servetus in prison and begged him > to > > recant > > his anti-Trinitarian views.  Servetus asked Calvin for his > personal > > forgiveness, which is apparently being exaggerated into "begging > for > > pity." > > Calvin gave him his forgiveness, but exhorted Servetus to ask for > mercy > > from > > God.  Servetus also begged the city for the sword instead of fire, > but in > > this, Calvin was in agreement with Servetus.  Calvin had > previously > > endeavored unsuccessfully with others to commute his death > sentence. > > Calvin > > did NOT support burning Servetus at the stake.  Read Foxe's Book > of > > Martyrs > > and Schaff's History of the Church. > > > > David Miller wrote: > >>> What did you think about books I & II concerning > >>> the knowledge of God? > > > > cd wrote: > >> I don't need Satan to teach me the word of God. > > > > LOL.  Is that what you think of Calvin?  John Wesley believed > Calvin to be > > a > > wise and pious man, and a great instrument of God.  Do you think > Wesley > > was > > wrong? > > > > cd wrote: > >> To say such and live against this the same- > >> doesn't make a saint-If he was so concerned > >> about the Law why break it by killing an innocent > >> man. > > > > Calvin has already articulated his belief that heretics kill the > soul, > > and, > > therefore, with a legal basis in the Law, they should be put to > death, > > lest > > they kill other souls.  Calvin simply believed that blasphemy is a > capital > > offense.  We may not agree with that in our culture, but it > certainly is > > not > > breaking the Law to believe in capital punishment for blasphemy.  > Don't > > you > > see how you are twisting the case against Calvin untowardly? > > > > CD wrote: > >> The facts show that Calvin did not-Tell how many > >> souls have seen harm from the Tulip Calvin pushed? > >> The OSAS in itself had led many to hell and many > >> more to fall away. > > > > TULIP was not invented by Calvin.  It was something put forward > later by > > followers of Calvin in an effort to combat Arminianism.  In like > manner, > > the > > OSAS has taken on many variations, some which strengthen and > encourage the > > believer in the providence of God, but others that lead people > into wanton > > sin.  John Calvin himself would not have supported many advocates > of the > > OSAS that you criticize.  Again, you should be careful not to rely > upon > > rumor and gossip.  You should have read "Institutes of the > Christian > > Religion" yourself. > > > > Now please don't misunderstand me.  I am not a five point > Calvinist.  I > > just > > think our criticism of Calvin's teachings should be fair and > accurate, not > > based upon lurid tales based more in fiction than truth. > > > > Peace be with you. > > David Miller. > > > > ---------- > > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that > you may > > know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) > > http://www.InnGlory.org > > > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email > to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you > have a > > friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > > > > > ---------- > "Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you > may know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) > http://www.InnGlory.org > > If you do not want to receive posts from this list, send an email to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and you will be unsubscribed.  If you > have a friend who wants to join, tell him to send an e-mail to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] and he will be subscribed. > >                                              judyt                                        He that says "I know Him" and doesn't keep His Commandments                               is a liar (1 John 2:4)