Sorry about the wrong term Bill but I'm sure you know what I meant, I should have written "early fathers"
Am also sorry that you don't feel inclined to stick around and explain the point I missed.  If you all go home
then it will just be Dean and I here this morning praisin'  the Lord together .... Glory!!!
 
Oh I forgot about Lance .... you are welcome to join us :)
 
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 06:46:25 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
 
Well, Judy, you have gotten in a couple digs, accused me of arguing against scripture, and completely missed the point once again. If you don't mind, I think I'll just go home early.
 
Have a nice day,
 
Bill  
 
By the way, patristic means "father"; "patristic fathers" is therefore redundant.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, January 09, 2006 6:07 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Christ - incarnate God (Judy)

 
 
On Mon, 9 Jan 2006 05:45:55 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Because He said it and since you hold Him in such high esteem yourself, I would think that you would find
this an important point also.
 
Things can be said, Judy, and have more than one possible meaning.
 
So what other meaning do you ascribe to John 14:28 Bill? The Amp Version even adds 'mightier' - so the Father
is "greater and mightier"  I can not see why you have a problem with this since Jesus came to serve rather than
to be served and stated clearly that the words he spoke were those of the Father and the works he did were the
Father's works.  It is written of Him "Lo I come in the volume of the book, it is written of me to do thy will O God"
(Heb 10:7)  How can you argue with the scriptures?
 
Ours is to decide which of those meanings is correct.
 
So it is what you decide which determines truth regardless of what is written?
 
You have used the "greater than I" verse to diminish Jesus' divinity, at the very least, on numerous occasions. You know that and I know that.
 
I am not diminishing anything Bill. I am agreeing with what is written and known as the Word of God. 
 
And that is why it is surprising for us to then read you calling him equal in divinity to the both the Father and Holy Spirit.
 
The conflict is in where your faith is rooted Bill; the patristic fathers and the scriptures do not agree. Accepting and believing the Word of God makes him no less divine.  It is best to accept what God says about Himself than to make him into something he is not.  You apparently do not understand the 'mystery of godliness'
 
I read the same verse and conclude that Jesus is addressing something other than his divinity because I already know that he is fully divine, hence equally divine (I could go into what I think he meant but that is beside the point). Don't assume that because I do not read it and come away with the same meaning as you that I read it and conclude, therefore, that it is not meaningful or important at all. 
 
At this point I don't know what to believe - about you and your doctrines - that is.... other than they don't agree with scripture.
 
Bill
 
On Sun, 8 Jan 2006 21:36:39 -0700 "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
I believe he has equal status in the Godhead with the other two members. God is ONE - remember?
 
That is good, Judy. And yes I do remember that. Why then do you make such an issue out of Jesus' statement that the Father was greater than he?
 
Because He said it and since you hold Him in such high esteem yourself, I would think that you would find this an important point also. His time spent on this earth as a man was for a purpose.  He came to demonstrate for us how to live as well as to lay down His human life so that we could live by being reconciled to the Father.
 
Correction, she writes as one who knows the One who knows all truth
 
I was only trying to be respectful of your position, Judy. Just yesterday you criticized the early fathers for not being able to fully understand the incarnation, pointing to "the Promise of the Father which is the Spirit who will lead us into ALL Truth." [emphasis your own] Do you see why I might misunderstand you from time to time?
 
No Bill I don't ... when all I am doing is quoting what has already been written and is sealed in heaven.
 
Bill

From: "Taylor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
[Y]ou guys keep constructing straw men arguments, claiming they are her's,
and then when it finally comes out that she doesn't believe what you have
been arguing all along that she believes, you think she has changed her
perspective.
 
Well, David, I am not one of the "you guys" you mention, as I've been asking
questions and weighing her answers in view of things she's stated elsewhere.
 
Sure you are Bill; you are constantly trying to set me up with your questions
and whatever answer I come up with is never good enough, never the right
one so far as you are concerned..  This is not what I call dialogue
 
On the question of the nature of Christ and his status in the "Godhead,"
Judy has been quite elusive and, when not, contradictory. I've asked her a
very specific question. We'll see if she addresses it or takes the winding
road yet again.
 
I believe he has equal status in the Godhead with the other two members.
God is ONE - remember?
 
By the way, you're right about the kinder, gentler approach.
 
Just a civil, respectful  approach would be much appreciated
 
Though she writes as one who knows all truth,
 
Correction, she writes as one who knows the One who knows all truth
 
she is ignorant of most of this and needsto be taught and brought along with
patience. I'll try to be better.
 
Sorry Bill you are not the One I had in mind .....
 
Anyway, till next time,
Bill
 
----------
"Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know how you ought to answer every man."  (Colossians 4:6) http://www.InnGlory.org
 
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