On Mon, 16 Jan 2006 01:47:47 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
You often have trouble quoting our very words in a given post - and you expect us to believethat you can speak for the likes of Judy Taylor?Why get all over him JD when you are doing the exact same thing here and now.....When we have our trist over the Gentiles in Romans 2, you and she both insist that these Gentiles must be regenerated (saved - born again) because an unsaved Gentile cannot do by nature the things of the law unless that "nature" be the "new nature" spoken of elswhere.Wrong. Unless they are regenerated God's Law will not be written on their hearts. Big difference.Unregenerated ppl can do a lot of things that look good but their motives are all wrong and they are atenmity with God and His Law. Anyone who is doing by nature the things written in God's Law has got tohave a new nature.You write - Why don't you let her speak for herself rather than trying to speak for her?And I am wondering why you do not go and do likewise.I'm glad he doesn't do likewise - at times he appears to be the only sane voice ... and most definitelythe only one who takes the time and trouble to try and understand what I am saying and to give arespectful and coherent response.Part of the confusion several of us have with both of you is bond to your unwillingness to be clear andconsistent with what you actually believe. I have lost count of the rather important questions I have askedyou both, only to be ignored by Judy and watch you get busy doing something else, only to return afterthe questioning has grown cold and meaningless. You will , no doubt, deny even this -- but it is true,nonetheless. jd-------------- Original message --------------
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
FWIW, from my perspective, Judy believes none of these things. In fact, she
seems to believe that unregenerated man can choose to believe in Jesus
Christ. I have a different perspective that I would share with her if there
were not so many other posts flying that take my time to read. I believe
that it takes a work of the Holy Spirit to draw men and cause them to
believe.My belief is probably closer to yours than you think. I do not believe in the"total depravity" taught by Calvinists and I do believe that noone can cometo or believe in Christ unless they are drawn by the Father and I understandthis to happen as the Word of God is preached under the anointing of theHoly Spirit who convicts the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment.(John 16:8). So yes, I do believe the unregenerate can make the choice tobelieve.I tend to agree with the perspective that man is regenerated at the
point just before believing because Jesus said that unless one is born
again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. How can an unregenerated man
believe in that which he cannot see?I believed on and received Jesus at a Street Preacher Rally before Iunderstood there was a whole Kingdom that came with Him. Thank you forperiodically giving your assessment DM. It's encouraging to know thatnot everyone reads and builds straw men to challenge what I write.In any case, I'm sure Judy believes that unregenerated men can decide to
stop doing something that they have been told is wrong. Unregenerated man
also can decide to do something good, like give money to the poor, etc. I
do not think Judy would say that Christ stopped being God. This is a straw
man argument. Why don't you let her speak for herself rather than trying to
speak for her?David Miller.----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Saturday, January 14, 2006 8:45 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: [TruthTalk] The mystery of Judy's gospel1. You believe that unregenerated man cannot do what is right. You have
stated that many times in the past. I was just hoping that you good
explain how that can be true with the example of Nineveh hanging over this
theological conclusion.2. Secondly, you believe that Christ stopped being God in spite of the oft
quoted (by you) passage "God is the same yesterday, today, and forever."
I was hoping for an explanation of this, as well.Ask me a question, Judy, about my beliefs and I will be glad to answer it
emphatically , not fearing being "set up." I do not mind being responsible
for what I consider to be true. Could you please do the same? I doubt
anyone on this forum can tell the rest of us what you believe. Seriouslyjd-------------- Original message --------------
From: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>God is the Creator of the ppl in Nineveh also and He is merciful and
longsuffering enough
to want to give them one more chance which they took for a measure of time
even though they
regressed later and were eventually destroyed. Their response to Jonah's
warning bought
them some time but unfortunately they did not gain eternity.On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:24:19 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And what does that have to do with the people of Nineveh? They don't have
to have the
Spirit to do right as long as the preacher has the Spirit?jdFrom: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Yes ... and Jonah was called by God and anointed to speak by the Spirit of
God..On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 23:15:38 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
But aren't you the one who preaches that one cannot do the works of God
without the Spirit of God?
jdFrom: Judy Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Death reigned from Adam to Moses and it reigned over Nineveh in Jonah's
day.. So obviously
the wages of sin is death with or without a written Law. Jonah called on
these people to repent
and they did do that in sackcloth and ashes... even without theological
permission.On Sat, 14 Jan 2006 21:36:00 +0000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
well, Nineveh was not under the Law. Jonah does not call them to the Law.
And it is the Law that defines sin to be sin. Can sin exist apart from
the law?
Paul says it does. Jonah is certainly not calling them to live their lives
as the
Jews lived theirs !! jdOn Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:56:35 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
I'm with Bill on this one. God is with Bill on this one, IMO, of course.I'm not surprised since you and Bill are so into culture and all that - but
don't bring God into your folly.
The pagan Persian City of Nineveh repented at the preaching of Jonah (Luke
11:32) And what do you
suppose his message to them was?
From: Judy TaylorHow interesting - Debbie Sawzak is of a Calvinistic bent; because after all
it is his doctrine that claims one must be regenerated before it is possible
to repent because of "total depravity" and this comes out of a
misunderstanding of the spiritual realities involved.On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 06:21:05 -0500 "Lance Muir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
From: Debbie Sawczak
Is repentance part of the Gospel? Yes, the NT is replete with directives to
repent. But repentance is not a means by which or through which people are
saved. It is Jesus Christ who is our Savior. Salvation is in him, complete
with mediation on our behalf. Repentance is therefore our response to the
greatest news the world has ever heard; it is our response to the good news
of Jesus Christ. Amen.Lance, I now see what you meant today about the exchange bw Bill and David,
having read the full message from Bill. The above is the crux, isn't it? It
(esp the part I bolded) reminds me of what Victor said numerous times in his
Human Person course: I know Christ first of all, before anything else, as my
Saviour. The accountability, the repentance, arise out of that.D--
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