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----- Original Message -----
Sent: 2/26/2006 9:51:59 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Continuing repentance
Dean: I don't consider myself a particularly 'sensitive' person. However, I wonder if you can spot the two implicit insults in Judy's post? This is what comes of the approach you seem to want to take.
cd: I can not control all things Lance and some leadway will be giving. Judy did no name calling-hence no personal insults were giving.Again is there truth in her words in particular in those two remarks you mentioned?If not prove her wrong.
----- Original Message -----
Sent: February 26, 2006 09:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Continuing repentance
Who? the church fathers, Augustine, Calvin, Luther, Barth, Torrance, Polanyi, Joseph Smith, Dake... (please insert
in your favourite 'bad person' here)? I don't borrow trouble Lance, so I leave judging their persons to the one who judges
righteously. As for their writings - I spend about as much time and effort meditating upon them as you do with the
policies of George W. They, like him are mere men.
As to the latter Judy, I have and, it does. Would you be so kind as to answer, giving your own opinions, concerning the aforementioned persons?
Well Lance, you have taken up an offence for the so called "church fathers" where IMO the Church has just one
Father and only one Lord. I know Paul the apostle referred to himself as a spiritual father to some but these are
people he had ministered to in person. I am happy to let those who have gone before RIP. We have the same
Word that was "once" delivered to the saints and the same Spirit who inspired the prophets teaching and leading us - so that we lack nothing. Concerning "conclusions" Lance. You come to quite a few of them concerning this Nation and Government yourself. Have you considered that this may also circumvent genuine dialogue also?
As to the former, "conformed to the image of Christ", yes. As to the latter "cages", no.
As I see it, Judy/Dean and others, what underlies the INSULTS (take note Dean) being levelled at: the church fathers, Augustine, Calvin, Luther, Barth, Torrance, Polanyi, Joseph Smith, Dake... (please insert in your favourite 'bad person' here) is a conclusion. I don't feel the need to identify that conclusion.These conclusions are attempt circumventing genuine dialogue.In some/many cases there exists no wish to 'dialogue' whatsoever'.
Are Dean and I to believe Lance that you perceive these two men to be "conformed to the image
of Christ" in their generation? I had never heard of the "oversize bird cages" do you know about this Lance?
Dean:Am I (are we) to understand that you and Judy have now 'dismissed' THE TWO MAJOR REFORMERS at that time in history? Do either of you perceive Luther/Calvin as UNbelievers?
I think there is a big difference. Luther was a bit rude and crude and he went from crawling up St. Peters Basillica on his knees and flagellating himself in penance to going wild with "where sin abounds grace doth much more abound" and running off with that. So in his case the pendulum swung as far as it could in the opposite direction. Also he never got completely free from the RC taint in his attitude toward the Jews which was not one of love and longsuffering by any means. One can see the influence of Augustine there - Luther wanted them hunted down and killed.
cd: Judy did you know that M.Luther had Street Preachers put in oversize bird cages and hung up in the church even on Sunday morning while he and his followers worshiped God. Amazes me that some people quote hin as an enerest speaker for God. In the entire Bible who was persecuted- the Christians or the pagans? When have Christians done such acts? Concern the moderation of religion-here is what the Bible says:
Jud 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.
In the above I see no room for modernizing (ie.alter/changing)the gospel to comform to modern belief of righ or wrong.To do so is a great mistake.
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