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----- Original Message -----
Sent: March 13, 2006 21:49
Subject: RE: Fw: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10
years speaks on believing teens
Okay okay..so I guess I deserved that feedback...I didn't really clarify
really well where that conversation about Job went. No, nothing miraculous
happened in front of me. My friend's boyfriend did not suddenly repent of
his intimacy outside the boundaries of an official wedding ceremony. I
phrase it that way because that is exactly what getting married has become to
some in the church. It is just making it right on the outside when really
there are awful problems inside the marriage that are never really
discussed. Whereas those who have been hurt by past relationships and are
scared to tie the knot again...so they live committed to each other but scared
to trust in an actual marriage relationship again and so they never take the
plunge. Could it be that this may be more honest in the end?
Anyhow...I just put that out for consideration. Once again, I feel one
must look beyond surface actions into the depth of a person's heart and
motives. Back to my sipping coffee with sinners....I was not looking for
any miraculous change...I think some of you are disappointed at that. I'm
not. I don't look for that and I certainly do not condition my
friendships on response. Friendship and conversation should be
unconditional. Sound familiar...? Jesus was like that. And
somehow in the midst of our conversations and being open and honest with each
other...could there be the start of redemption? How do we know what my
friend walked away thinking after that afternoon? By the way, did I tell
you that I left him with a couple of bibles for him and his son who is from his
first marriage who was visiting..and some cd's...and that we are to continue
this discourse at some point!? Maybe I should also mention a conversation
I had last night with my pregnant teenager friend who I mentioned earlier as
well. She called me late last night much to my annoyance since I had had a
crazy day and was not up to much conversation anymore. We had just
finished our official young adult meeting at church and she was calling me to
say that she wanted to let me know that she has made a decision not to be
intimate with her boyfriend anymore. I was floored. It is the very
thing I was praying for however I never made mention of it to her. These
were just my prayers and hopes for her. She went on to tell me how she had
let her boyfriend know about that and then she started crying because she said
she was so scared she would lose him. She's pregnant and she's 17 and
she's scared of being alone. Instead, her boyfriend ended up telling her
how much he loved her and respected her for her decision and has decided to get
baptized along with her...They willl both be taking classes towards this event
which takes place on Easter Sunday. Please pray with me for them.
Her boyfriend has been coming to our young adult group as well. And what a
testimony...when I dropped them all home. He walked her to the door of her
house, kissed her goodbye and got back in the car with me and I dropped him
home. This is how it will be with them until they get married...which they
are hoping to do soon. I hope you will pray for them. Please note
that I said nothing...just loved and had apparently meaningless conversations
about Job and other such wonderful people in the Bible while sipping
coffee. I hope some of you will take the time to walk with people on their
rough and difficult journey through life. Well, I'm off...I have an early
morning flight to New Orleans and I sure am hoping to run into many more
wonderful people and great conversations which will end in who knows what kind
of amazing committments down the road somewhere...Do we believe this??
Jesus changes lives..in His time and His way. What an awesome relief to
know that I just have to walk alongside those He puts my way and He'll do the
rest! Thank you for listening!
Joanna
From: "Lance Muir"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Joanna"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Fw:
[TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10 years speaks on believing
teens
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 2006 12:33:51
-0500
>
>----- Original Message ----- From: "David Miller"
><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To:
<TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org>
>Sent: March 13, 2006
12:27
>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10
years
>speaks on believing teens
>
>
>>John
wrote:
>>>You make I Cor 3:1ff of no
account.
>>
>>I'm not sure what you are getting
at. The carnal person is the one
>>who
>>accepts
the brother who is fornicating and does not call him to
>>repentance.
>>Isn't that Paul's message? If
they were spiritual, he would not
>>have to
>>tell them how
to handle this situation in 1 Cor. 5.
>>
>>As for the
discourse below about the fornicator relating to the
>>book of
Job,
>>there is one HUGE difference between Job and this
fornicator. Job
>>was NOT
a
>>fornicator. Job was being FALSELY accused of
sin. I hope somebody
>>sipping
>>coffee with him
helped him recognize this.
>>
>>The problem in churches
today is exactly what we read in this
>>e-mail.
>>Christians no longer have the integrity to tell
others they are in
>>sin and
>>need to
repent. Certainly this must be done with love and
>>compassion, but
>>we cannot just allow people to continue
in sin. The Scriptures are
>>pretty
>>clear that
allowing people to sin in the church will cause the rest
>>of
the
>>believers likewise to fall into sin. This could be a
primary
>>reason why
>>many Christians have never even met
other Christians who no longer
>>continue
>>to
sin.
>>
>>David
Miller.
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message ----- From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
>>Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 12:09
PM
>>Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Joanna Williams - friend of some 10
years
>>speaks on
>>believing
teens
>>
>>
>>You make I Cor 3:1ff of no
account.
>>
>>jd
>>
>>--------------
Original message -------------- From: Kevin Deegan
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>No I did not miss the
part about the authors INTENTIONs
>>
>>Did you miss the part
about the Authors command to NOT to company
>>with
>>Fornicators?
>>
>>Was it the N
word?
>>
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>And you
comment has what to do with my post and the question
>>within:
>>Hey, Kev -- did
you somehow miss the part in the discourse below
>>that
>>presents the author's desire, hope and prayer for
change in the
>>lives of
>>those whom she is working
with? And your approach to helping the
>>addicted
>>is ....................what,
exactly ..................... just
>>send
>>them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside
the city of
>>Jerusalem?
>>I await your
answer.
>>
>>jd
>>
>>
>>--------------
Original message -------------- From: Kevin Deegan
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>What was it for you
the N or the O?
>>
>>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
>>Hey, Kev -- did you somehow
miss the part in the discourse below
>>that
>>presents the
author's desire, hope and prayer for change in the
>>lives
of
>>those whom she is working with? And your approach to
helping the
>>addicted
>>is ....................what,
exactly ..................... just
>>send
>>them directly to the trash heap somewhere outside
the city of
>>Jerusalem?
>>
>>jd
>>
>>--------------
Original message -------------- From: Kevin Deegan
>><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>1 Co 5:9 I
wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with
>>fornicators
>>
>>Which part is hard to
understand the N the O or the T ?
>>
>>"As we sipped on
coffee"
>>
>>if any man that is called a brother be a
fornicator, or covetous,
>>or an
>>idolater, or a railer,
or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such
>>an one
no
>>not to eat.
>>
>>The N or the
O?
>>
>>"He relates a lot to
Job"
>>LOL! a lot? NOT! - N or O or T?
>>Job
1:22 In all this Job sinned not
>>
>>Then we
have a declaration, GREAT VICTORY! the Fornicator is STILL
>>a
>>FORNICATOR!
>>Your kinder gentler Humanistic
Religion really works! What a
>>testimony!
>>
>>Lance Muir
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>Well, since I'm being asked
for a response on this...my initial
>>feeling is
>>that we
need to live in the real world having contact with
real
>>people...perhaps listen a little more to others and how they
live.
>>In my
>>experience with people,
including believers by the way, struggle
>>with sin
is
>>common. By the way, people are so much more harsh on
visible sins
>>such as
>>addictions to alcohol,
pornography, drugs etc...whereas I believe
>>Jesus
>>always
looked deeper into our hearts and spoke to much that was
>>invisible
to
>>many...such as self-righteousness, judgement towards others,
>>jealousies,
>>religious obsession. etc. These
are way harder to weed out of our
>>lives
>>than outer
behaviours that seem to upset the church so much. I
>>pray that we
>>may see these situations with the heart of
God, listening and
>>dealing with
>>others on a very real
level which unfortunately is so often tucked
>>away
and
>>not talked about enough. We have many hurting people
in our
>>churches who
>>are deeply addicted to many non
-christian behaviours...but rather
>>than
>>judge...it may
be much better to listen, to learn and to work out
>>the
deeper
>>rooted hurts and issues that cause people to lose themselves
in the
>>worlds
>>of pornography, alcohol, sexual
relationships etc. It is so
>>important to
be
>>the kind of Christian that is listening to others with an open
>>attitude and
>>no pre-conceived judgements in mind
whether they are in the church
>>or not.
>>A couple of
instances pop into my mind right now...one is from last
>>Saturday
>>when I actually popped by my friend's
house...co-worker from the
>>bank where
>>I
work. As we sipped on coffee, her boyfriend/spouse began to talk
>>about
>>how he used to go to church in England and
considers himself a
>>believer in
>>God and Christ but
would no longer go to a church anymore because
>>of
the
>>questions about his relationship with my friend and the fact
that
>>they were
>>living together. He began to
share his hurts about this situation
>>and then
>>we got
into one of th e best discussions I've ever had on the book
>>of
Job.
>>He relates a lot to Job and the judgement his well-meaning
friends
>>brought
>>to him during a rough time in his life
when they should have been
>>listening
>>and loving him and
not judging him.. How wonderful at the end of
>>the
book
>>when Job not only comes into a deep trust with God but God
also
>>invites him
>>to pray for the very friends that
incessantly accused him. Great
>>victory
>>there
and much to be learned from that story. Another situation I
>>am
>>reminded of is happening in my church right now with
a young
>>teenager who is
>>pregnant and has come to our
church for shelter. While she loves
>>the
Lord
>>and clings to His love at this hard time in her life, she is
also
>>still
>>involved with her boyfriend outside of
marriage right now and
>>realizes her
>>situations are not
perfect. I have just chosen as a youth ministry
>>leader
>>to walk beside her, with no judgments gi ve n ,
and just let the
>>Word of the
>>God speak to her and let
her make her choices...letting her know
>>God's
great
>>love just as she is. I feel as if as a church, if
we come out of
>>the little
>>religious bubble we've
allowed ourselves to be in...much awaits us.
>> Sure
>>life will not be black and white but
it will be interesting and
>>beautiful...as diverse as each person's
dna and personality is...it
>>is in
>>these simply unique
ways that God does touch and change each
>>life...not
in
>>cookie-cutter ways or via textbook answers! I hope
this helps
>>somewhat...would love to continue the
conversation!! All the best
>>to all
of
>>you...Roll up your sleeves and get into the amazing mix of life
>>with
>>others...God will pop up in the most surprising
places!! My e-mail
>>address
>>is
[EMAIL PROTECTED] if any of you care to contact me
>>at any
>>time! Thank
you!
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yahoo!
Mail
>>Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a
breeze.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yahoo!
Mail
>>Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a
breeze.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>Yahoo!
Mail
>>Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a
breeze.
>>
>>----------
>>"Let your speech be
always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you
>>may know how you
ought to answer every man." (Colossians 4:6)
>>http://www.InnGlory.org
>>
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