To the anonymous person who shared with me the latest episode of Discovery so I might watch it and cringe, thanks... and ugh. I’m now even more annoyed with the revamped Pike character than I was before. Without giving away too many spoilers, it turns out the Discovery series is set AFTER the original pilot, The Cage, instead of before, so people who were defending the Pike character’s young and brash, Kirk-like playfulness (which ran antithetical to the character’s manner in The Cage) by stating this is an earlier point in his life... um... nope, the writers just decided to omit the details about the character that they disliked. As for emo-Spock/hipster-Spock... just no.
On Wed, Feb 27, 2019 at 12:16 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> wrote: > Discovery has been picked up for a third season, according to all the Trek > social media > > On Sun, Feb 3, 2019 at 10:51 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Credit where credit is due, the cast of Discovery knows how to make a >> (musical) joke at their own expense. >> >> https://www.facebook.com/StarTrek/videos/544141186098858/ >> >> I wish they could star in an actual Star Trek series. >> >> On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 10:34 PM Kevin M. <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 2:22 PM Adam Bowie <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>>> I confess that I'm not so big a Star Trek fan that I can honestly >>>> remember many pertinent character traits of someone who appeared in two >>>> episodes of TOS. So Pike being a bit different to how we was in those >>>> episodes doesn't really worry me. But I honestly think you have to consider >>>> a very long running series like Trek (or Doctor Who for that matter) in a >>>> different way. Shows are obviously a product of their times. TOS might have >>>> been set in a far future, but it was also "set" in 1966. While warp drives >>>> or whatever aren't close to being invented, something as simple as screen >>>> technology has moved on vastly from what they could even imagine in 1966. >>>> >>>> So TOS becomes a kind of retro-future from today's vantage point. So >>>> you either adopt that static 1966-view of the future in every Trek, or you >>>> adjust accordingly. I'm happy that they've done that. Things won't match up >>>> perfectly, but they never have, and never will. >>>> >>>> As for characterisation? To me it's a little like watching a really >>>> good production of Julius Caesar and enjoying the performance of the actor >>>> who played Mark Antony. Then later seeing an entirely separate performance >>>> of Antony and Cleopatra, with a different actor playing Mark Antony. They >>>> are the same character both from the same Shakespeare "universe," but >>>> interpreted by different actors and directors. There's a continuity of >>>> character, and yet differences. >>>> >>> >>> This is gonna be longer than it needs to be, but here goes... >>> >>> I have seen others discuss reboots on TV in relation to live theater >>> casting different people for the same role... it just isn’t the same to me. >>> Iconic characters are going to be recast... there will be an infinite >>> number of James Bonds, Batmen, and James T Kirks. But these characters are >>> products of their respective times. There can be British secret agents who >>> treat women as equals, and there can be female secret agents... but none of >>> those characters will be Bond. And it is unfair to say that audiences are >>> behind the times if we refuse to accept entirely new characters who only >>> happen to share the same name as the originals. I loved the British series >>> Spooks/MI5 about a diverse group of spies both male and female, of all >>> sorts of racial backgrounds... they were able tell amazing stories that >>> were distinctly not Bond stories. In terms of Trek, JJ Abrams did an >>> amazing job of retaining the characterizations of Kirk, Spock, and McCoy >>> without altering defining traits of those characters. Kirk is always going >>> to be a smug, frivolous adventure seeker... or he wouldn’t be Kirk. For >>> that matter, JJ did a decent job with the Pike character, making him more >>> stoic and earnest than Kirk. Live theater will have multiple actors playing >>> Julius Caesar, but they won’t have Caesar kill Brutus at the end of the >>> play. Macbeth is never going to be the good guy. Romeo is never going to >>> fall in love with Juliet’s nurse. >>> >>> You’re correct that Pike was only on screen a comparatively short time >>> on the original series, and in a good chunk of that time he sat in a chair >>> and beeped. But it seems disingenuous for the Discovery writers to take >>> from that and assume Pike would be different merely because he was a few >>> years younger. But it is indicative of what the team behind Discovery has >>> done with Trek... they’ve taken the basic shape of the ships, a few names, >>> a few sound effects, but then tossed out the dynamics of what made Trek >>> withstand the test of time. The trinity of Kirk, Spock and McCoy was >>> iconic... the id, ego, and superego in constant conflict with each other, >>> reacting to the events of each episode. If you’re going to create a new >>> series with new characters in the same universe, you have to be thinking in >>> those terms, or you’re cheating the audience. The Next Generation shifted >>> which character fulfilled which role, but there was still a trio of >>> different reactions and actions as they explored the emotions and >>> consequences of their missions. Deep Space Nine had decent stories >>> (possibly some of the best written sci-fi in the franchise), but wasn’t >>> very good Trek. Voyager eventually found its way. Enterprise had it, then >>> lost it when the Xindi arrived and they made every character react with >>> identical reactions and angst. Discovery, by virtue of not making the >>> captain the center of the story, has wiped out the give and take found in >>> the original series. Tilly is the ranked equivalent of Yeoman Rand, and >>> Trek isn’t the story of Yeoman Rand’s journey through space. Doesn’t mean >>> there can’t be good stories featuring the Tilly character, but they won’t >>> be what for 50 years has been an iconic Trek story. >>> >>> I really want to believe that if CBS had created a brand new sci-fi >>> series about a war between humans and an alien race but made no attempts to >>> link it to the universe of Trek, I’d probably have enjoyed it. I liked >>> Stargate. I loved Babylon 5. But if you’re going to call it Star Trek, then >>> dammit Jim, you better make it Star Trek. >>> >>> >>>> How dark or light this season of Discovery will be is still too early >>>> to say. I'm not a total fan of Tilly being ditzy one moment, and a gifted >>>> scientific genius the next, but even the darkest of dramas do need some >>>> light just to show how dark the shade is. And at least she's not an >>>> annoying child prodigy on the bridge... >>>> >>>> >>>> Adam >>>> >>>> On Sun, Jan 27, 2019 at 5:36 PM Steve Timko <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> I watched it. Too soap operaish for me. I hate those moments where the >>>>> plot grinds to a halt because a character is going to emote. That happened >>>>> too much with Billie Piper on "Dr. Who." >>>>> Tig Notaro was wooden. Ironically, the comedian's worst lines were the >>>>> jokes her character cracked. I can't believe they couldn't get someone >>>>> better for that role. >>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 9:06 PM 'David Bruggeman' via TVorNotTV < >>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> FWIW, I think having the Enterprise show up at the end of last season >>>>>> hemmed in the show at least as much as setting it a decide prior to the >>>>>> first series. I suspect the new propulsion system will get ignored like >>>>>> the Warp 5 restriction on space travel was in during the 24th century >>>>>> spinoffs. >>>>>> >>>>>> That said, I think it's tricky to presume that Captain Pike was >>>>>> always the way he was in The Cage/The Menagerie (which happened roughly 3 >>>>>> years before the events currently unfolding on Discovery). He started >>>>>> that >>>>>> first pilot as a burned out captain wondering if he should hang it up >>>>>> (Dr. >>>>>> Boyce had suggested a rest leave) and ended the episode ready to get back >>>>>> to exploring. >>>>>> >>>>>> What I expect might give me agita is young(er) Spock. Yes, he wasn't >>>>>> as buttoned up serving under Captain Pike, but I'm concerned they will go >>>>>> to far in that direction to seem consistent with Quinto's or Nimoy's >>>>>> portrayals. >>>>>> >>>>>> David >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Saturday, January 26, 2019, 11:23:43 PM EST, Kevin M. < >>>>>> [email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 6:24 PM Adam Bowie <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I think we've been here before about Discovery being in an impossible >>>>>> situation being an immediate prequel of TOS. Frankly, Pike extolling >>>>>> something that might have sounded likely in 1966 but sounds old-fashioned >>>>>> in 2019, is the least of anyone's worries. They're still going to have to >>>>>> get rid of new propulsion system at some point and explain away why no >>>>>> other subsequent Treks was able to use it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I can’t agree with you. It is a worry. Either the original series is >>>>>> canonical or it isn’t. I’m not the one who decided a second prequel >>>>>> series >>>>>> was a good idea; it opens them up to exactly this sort of criticism and >>>>>> more. But more than just the chauvinistic comment (which from a >>>>>> storytelling standpoint was a horrible thing for them to abandon... >>>>>> imagine >>>>>> the sort of stories that could emerge from a character who basically >>>>>> feels >>>>>> like Archie Bunker helming a starship, especially a starship with so many >>>>>> strong female and alien characters), Pike wasn’t a fun guy. He was >>>>>> somber, >>>>>> serious, contemplative. It was easier to make the character more jovial >>>>>> because they seem to be embarking on another very dark story arc and >>>>>> needed >>>>>> a lighter character in command, so they just changed it. They control >>>>>> what >>>>>> is canon, so they have the right to do whatever they want with the >>>>>> character, but it opens them up to criticism from Trekkies. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I think you just have to park all that and enjoy the new series... or >>>>>> not. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I’ll take “or not”... if it was on free media I’d probably hate-watch >>>>>> it the way Dave S hate-watches all things Sorkin, but I don’t need to pay >>>>>> CBS to do that. I’m in Nebraska... lots of things here I can dislike for >>>>>> free. >>>>>> >>>>>> I will try to hold out hope for the Picard series, despite the same >>>>>> “creative” team being behind it, it has a chance to expand the universe >>>>>> of >>>>>> Trek instead of sinking inward into its past. And while Michelle Yeoh is >>>>>> a >>>>>> favorite, a series about Section 31 sounds even less Trek-like than >>>>>> Discovery. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Personally, I'm still enjoying this more than most. Episode 2 feels >>>>>> very old-Trek with an away party going down to a planet in disguise. Yes, >>>>>> there's an ongoing story arc, but that's to be expected. Of course, this >>>>>> side of the pond we're lucky that we don't need a whole other TV >>>>>> subscription to essentially watch just this one show. It's on Netflix >>>>>> here >>>>>> thankfully. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Adam >>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 26, 2019 at 5:44 AM Kevin M. <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> It was free on the CBS All Access YouTube channel so I watched. It is >>>>>> better than it was when I stopped watching last season, but that's not >>>>>> saying much. There wasn't much to the Pike character in the original Trek >>>>>> pilot, but this Pike character was nothing like what little there was in >>>>>> the pilot (i.e.- in the pilot, Pike remarked he wasn't used to having >>>>>> women >>>>>> on the bridge, but didn't balk at Discovery's nearly all female bridge >>>>>> crew, supposedly 9 or 10 years earlier). Frankly, Discovery Pike is >>>>>> closer >>>>>> to early Kirk, but whatever. Still not paying for All Access to watch >>>>>> more >>>>>> episodes. >>>>>> >>>>>> Free on YouTube (limited time only) >>>>>> >>>>>> https://youtu.be/8rvMqRrtmkY >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to [email protected]. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> -- >>> Kevin M. (RPCV) >>> >> >> >> -- >> Kevin M. (RPCV) >> > -- > Kevin M. (RPCV) > -- Kevin M. (RPCV) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
