Correction: Reading a little more about Caroline Flack, I realise that I was wrong to say that she had not talked about her suffer mental health issues in public previously. In fact she had, been quite public about some of those issues.
I don't think that this was necessarily a case of mental health stigmatisation. But it might well be a case of lack of responsibility towards a person who has been very honest about her own issues. On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 11:04 AM Adam Bowie <a...@adambowie.co.uk> wrote: > I can't begin to think about how tough it must be to be a young person in > today's world of social media. While bullying has always happened, at least > you could largely leave it behind at the school gates at the end of the > day. Today it's 24/7 with jokes and memes being shared, to which you may or > may not be privy. > > I think that this was indeed more a case of toxic social media culture - > and also tabloid press culture - than anything else. The mental health > angle seems to come from a view that if someone takes their own life, they > must have had mental health issues. "What were the signs that we missed?" > > You're certainly better placed than me to understand this, although I > suspect that like everything, it's not as simple as that. > > On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 3:17 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I treat depressed and suicidal patients every day, and frequently have to >> decide whether to involuntarily hospitalize people. So I have a deep >> interest in these issues. I run a group for depressed young adults (18-25), >> and a frequent topic is the impact of social media in a number of ways. If >> you are 21 years old today you pretty much have only known a world defined >> by Twitter and Instagram and whatever else I don’t even know. Also, even >> though they are not famous, it seems everyone is something of a celebrity >> within their social media world, and if a young adult with 500 Twitter >> followers reads 20 nasty tweets about themselves around midnight, they lie >> in bed feeling that “every one” in the world hates them. And sometimes, >> interacting with life stress and history of trauma or loss, they can get >> convinced that there is no point in going on. >> >> But sometimes they also report that when people hear about their MH >> problems this itself becomes a focus of online attacks, which even further >> demoralizes them. I was just wondering if this tragic event was more a case >> of the first thing (toxic social media culture), which sounds like it was >> or the second (mental health stigmatization) which sounds like maybe it >> wasn’t. >> >> On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 5:14 PM Adam Bowie <a...@adambowie.co.uk> wrote: >> >>> I'm not aware that she had any specific mental health issues - at least >>> none that were widely reported. But the implication that is being widely >>> insinuated is that it was pressure from the press or social media that >>> drove her to take the path she did. >>> >>> In general, I think the over-riding tone is that we are becoming >>> increasingly nasty about one another, whether for commercial clicks or in >>> the way we interact in social media. >>> >>> I think you have to look at this too in the light of the decisions made >>> by Harry and Meghan to effectively step away from Royal Family duties. Not >>> nearly as serious, but again a widespread (and I believe accurate) belief >>> that whatever privileges come with being a member of the Royal household, >>> the press has driven them to this. >>> >>> I thought this Tweet written by British comedian David Baddiel captures >>> it all really well: >>> >>> https://twitter.com/Baddiel/status/1228751397664980992 >>> >>> (Baddiel himself was the subject of a lot of social media hate for his >>> views of the outgoing Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn and his failure to deal >>> with anti-semitic factions within his party.) >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 1:03 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for this Adam (and to Brad for the link to the video summary), >>>> it does help me get a sense of what is going on. >>>> >>>> What I am still unclear about is this: Was Ms Flack known to have >>>> mental health struggles prior to her death, and was this part of what she >>>> was being bullied about? Or are people saying after the fact that the media >>>> should have known or suspected she had such problems? >>>> >>>> Either way of course no excuse for just treating her badly, but the >>>> issue of toxic and gang social media culture, while important, seems >>>> separate from the issue of how mental health issues are treated. The two >>>> issues seem to be connected in this case and I am trying to understand why. >>>> >>>> On Sun, Feb 16, 2020 at 4:52 PM Adam Bowie <a...@adambowie.co.uk> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> It's unlikely that most of this group will know who she is unless they >>>>> watch the UK original version of Love Island which I think is on Netflix >>>>> Stateside, where I believe it does fairly well. And I should preface all >>>>> of >>>>> this by saying that I never watched Love Island, and I don't make a habit >>>>> of reading the tabloid press - online or offline. >>>>> >>>>> Caroline Flack was a TV presenter, who started out presenting kids >>>>> shows before doing other things. She also did well in a series of Strictly >>>>> Come Dancing (aka Dancing With the Stars) a few seasons ago. Love Island, >>>>> you may know, is something of a hit for ITV2 getting the channel its >>>>> biggest ratings. >>>>> >>>>> Anyway, towards the end of last year, she was arrested for assaulting >>>>> her boyfriend. It all caused quite a tabloid media frenzy, and with a >>>>> first >>>>> winter cycle of Love Island imminent, she stood down from presenting that >>>>> series. The tabloid press of course milked the story for all it was worth, >>>>> generating multiple front pages. For them, it was the perfect story. And >>>>> so, with her case due in court soon, we ended up where we are. >>>>> >>>>> I'm absolutely not a mental health expert, but the UK charity, The >>>>> Samaritans, have a really smart media guidelines code for dealing with >>>>> celebrity suicides ( >>>>> https://www.samaritans.org/about-samaritans/media-guidelines/), >>>>> noting you can rarely truly say what the cause of someone's death is. But >>>>> social media has been alive this weekend with antipathy towards the >>>>> tabloid >>>>> press. The press has been swiftly taking down some of their more spiteful >>>>> pieces. But in turn, they're directing venom towards users of social media >>>>> for being so hateful. >>>>> >>>>> Others have been talking about internet hatred in general. In general, >>>>> you find nastiness from both the press and individuals. >>>>> >>>>> Of course, tabloids only publish stories that sell papers - or more so >>>>> these days - drive clicks. So there's certainly some schadenfreude going >>>>> on >>>>> here. People are clicking on those articles, perhaps even more so as of >>>>> this weekend. >>>>> >>>>> There's obviously an enormous amount of soul-searching going on, and >>>>> enormous sympathy being shown to Flack's friends and family. Awareness of >>>>> mental health and the impact of reality TV, tabloid press and social media >>>>> on people's lives is becoming a major issue. Love Island itself has seen >>>>> two suicides amongst former contestants, and last year the Jeremy Kyle >>>>> Show >>>>> (think a UK version of Jerry Springer) was cancelled following the suicide >>>>> of a participant in that show. The issues surrounding that show at the >>>>> time >>>>> led to a lot of conversation about how much support participants in TV >>>>> shows - especially reality shows - should get. Should it be months? Years? >>>>> Clips live on, on platforms like YouTube, forever. >>>>> >>>>> In the meantime, Love Island has skipped a couple of episodes (it's >>>>> basically daily), although I understand ITV does want to bring it back - >>>>> starting with a memorial episode. Meanwhile, Channel 4 had a series in the >>>>> can fronted by Flack which they are now not going to broadcast. >>>>> >>>>> There's a lot of hand-wringing going on. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Adam >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 17, 2020 at 12:25 AM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> I don’t recall knowing anything about her or her show; had to search >>>>>> our archives to find this note posted by Bob a few months ago. But my >>>>>> Twitter feed has been full of posts relating this to social attitudes >>>>>> about >>>>>> mental illness, which got my attention. Does anyone here have more >>>>>> context >>>>>> on this young woman and her sad death, apparently suicide as per linked >>>>>> article? Did she have a publicized history of mental disorder? >>>>>> >>>>>> https://apnews.com/40defa2f6da82cdda85a56831c06f60c >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Tue, Dec 17, 2019 at 6:37 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV < >>>>>> tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Caroline Flack, before she was to leave for South Africa for the >>>>>>> next series of the itv hit, was arrested for attacking her partner at >>>>>>> her >>>>>>> home this past week. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/love-island-host-caroline-flack-steps-down-assault-charge-1263275 >>>>>>> (link) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> B >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>> send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/f0976e95-d924-49c1-b2e9-ceb0f1a7bdaa%40googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/f0976e95-d924-49c1-b2e9-ceb0f1a7bdaa%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>>> . >>>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkY%2BKpgxiVZ-RB0mAJrKthGOhjC_QXgaq68Bs7dEzgAF%2BSw%40mail.gmail.com >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkY%2BKpgxiVZ-RB0mAJrKthGOhjC_QXgaq68Bs7dEzgAF%2BSw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>>> . >>>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAD_sJGBmVjUbWiGfuvAv6fYphALDdzDJ7LJgKrVW3EcKLt-6Ag%40mail.gmail.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAD_sJGBmVjUbWiGfuvAv6fYphALDdzDJ7LJgKrVW3EcKLt-6Ag%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYJSnSp%2BSUzWL6NHajsYDz83uc%2B67Vegmy-tOz1XqubBjw%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYJSnSp%2BSUzWL6NHajsYDz83uc%2B67Vegmy-tOz1XqubBjw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAD_sJGAh%2BAtsfwrU5HQ%3DOsGyq4%2Bx%2BVGjp-YRCxtjX3%3DHHB%2B%3Dqg%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAD_sJGAh%2BAtsfwrU5HQ%3DOsGyq4%2Bx%2BVGjp-YRCxtjX3%3DHHB%2B%3Dqg%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYLvdgtW%2BvC51kSJd28Y_4MsgQ7xKbB55GrNQsXT2nGBtA%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYLvdgtW%2BvC51kSJd28Y_4MsgQ7xKbB55GrNQsXT2nGBtA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. 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