I don’t think HBO is trying to dictate anything to the future. They are just ensuring that the resources under their control are used responsibly, or at least are more likely to be used responsibly.
On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 7:50 PM Kevin M. <drunkbastar...@gmail.com> wrote: > Something Conan O’Brian has discussed in multiple interviews the last > couple of years is the legacy (specifically the lack thereof) of the media > and of people in the media. We are already to the point where the films and > stars of Hollywood’s golden age are being forgotten. Historians and film > buffs will remember them and study them, but with a handful of exceptions, > in a decade or two, the majority of films from the whole 20th century will > be entirely irrelevant to mainstream culture. Same with TV shows and music. > Think of the biggest shows of the golden age... Honeymooners, I Love Lucy, > Burns & Allen... will those shows even be pop culture references in 2030? > Do they deserve to be? > > Nat King Cole’s variety show had a greater percentage of ratings than > almost any series in history but it was cancelled because advertisers > refused to sponsor a show with a black host... that’s an especially > poignant bit of trivia given our current social circumstances, but what > network or streaming service is going to air episodes or even discuss it? > > We in the present don’t dictate what the future will remember about us, > just as those in the past didn’t dictate how they would be remembered. I > don’t think Gone With The Wind will stand the test of time, in or out of > context. But it is not up to me... or HBO. > > > > > On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 6:58 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I think pretty much the opposite. BoaN is exemplary filmmaking. I have >> watched it many times, including several close critical readings with >> master filmmakers, and with experts in Pan African Studies. Yes, the racism >> is gross and obvious, but over the last 100+ years many white viewers come >> away from it more likely to accept several of the underlying, racist claims >> (e.g. that black elected officials in the South during reconstruction were >> clowns, that the KKK was defending innocent women and property owners). >> >> GwtW on the other hand is sappy melodrama. It is also peak film making on >> several technical levels, and wildly influential on the popular Mid century >> imagination. While the book and film do try to make the former slave owners >> the victims of the Civil War and abolition, I think most white American >> viewers over the decades have recognized the deep pathology at the root of >> Scarlet’s saga. >> >> Both films deserve to be seen by students of both serious history and >> popular culture. Both require pretty extensive contextualization. >> >> On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 5:10 PM Steve Timko <steveti...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> "Birth of a Nation" is such a caricature I don't think it needs any >>> explaining or context. >>> >>> SPOILER ALERT >>> The final scene where the father is ready to club his daughter to death >>> with a pistol that has no ammunition rather than let her fall into the >>> hands of the lecherous black aggressors, and then the Ku Klux Klan >>> heroically rides to the rescue, is disturbing. >>> >>> "Gone With the Wind" is beautifully shot and epic in scale, even by >>> today's standards. It could be easier to hide the racism in there. >>> >>> In the 1970s, "Gone With the Wind" topped many best movie lists, ,but >>> has been in decline. The AFI best movie list after 100 years lists it as >>> sixth. It is much lower on many others. And awareness of racism had little >>> to do with it, I think. People just developed more sophisticated tastes. >>> The picture book quality of "Gone With the Wind" is less impressive. >>> >>> "Birth of a Nation" was fantastically profitable for DW Griffith. It was >>> shown before they had formal movie theaters. Frequently they just set up a >>> tent, put in seats and charged admission. It played for years. It has the >>> distinction to be the first movie screened at The White House, in 1915. >>> >>> It was based on a novel called "The Klansman," which, as racist >>> literature goes, was not a poorly written book. I'm not calling it a good >>> book. But compared to say "The Turner Diaries," the writer had storytelling >>> skills. "The Turner Diaries" was written like you'd expect an associate >>> professor of physics at a community college to write a novel. >>> >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 4:35 PM PGage <pga...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> So, the subject header here is somewhat misleading. They are not >>>> removing it, they are taking it down until they can replace it with a >>>> version that is not censored or bowdlerized, but includes critical >>>> commentary and historical context. See WaPo piece linked below. >>>> >>>> I think this is appropriate and long overdue. I grew up watching GWTW >>>> and Birth of a Nation. Both films have value, both in terms of the craft of >>>> film making and as artifacts of their prior in social history. Neither >>>> should be censored, and I have argued against doing that over and over with >>>> my liberal friends. But neither should they just be released to free range >>>> in the culture, shaping assumptions and attitudes uncritically. Nobody will >>>> be forced to view the new material, but everybody will have it available as >>>> the default option. >>>> >>>> I agree with the comment that many corporations are engaging in shallow >>>> performative and ultimately meaningless gestures of support for BLM. I >>>> don’t think this is an example of it. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/hbo-max-isnt-censoring-gone-with-the-wind-its-reframing-it/2020/06/10/d78544ec-ab3e-11ea-94d2-d7bc43b26bf9_story.html >>>> >>>> >>>> On Wed, Jun 10, 2020 at 11:14 AM 'Bob Jersey' via TVorNotTV < >>>> tvornottv@googlegroups.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Moi, this morning (6/10): >>>>>> >>>>>> Temporarily, the streamer told Variety, until a discussion about its >>>>>> historical context and a denouncement of its biased depictions can be >>>>>> offered with it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> https://variety.com/2020/film/news/hbo-max-gone-with-the-wind-removed-1234629892/ >>>>>> (link) >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank this op-ed in the LAT (possible $) by Oscar®-winning >>>>> screenwriter John Ridley for WM's decision... >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-06-08/hbo-max-racism-gone-with-the-wind-movie >>>>> (link) >>>>> >>>>> B >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/bfafe532-719f-45c2-b078-abc8749e0c50o%40googlegroups.com >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/bfafe532-719f-45c2-b078-abc8749e0c50o%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>>> . >>>>> >>>> -- >>>> Sent from Gmail Mobile >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYJSTUNbEHYSZiOuyZSK3af-yzyBkLA2gHndjObN_DqTKA%40mail.gmail.com >>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYJSTUNbEHYSZiOuyZSK3af-yzyBkLA2gHndjObN_DqTKA%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>>> . >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "TVorNotTV" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAH5J8yx%2BasSVNJDYYoepuDhbkaoSu%2BN6b9bq1m%3Dd6B3C8vtBTQ%40mail.gmail.com >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAH5J8yx%2BasSVNJDYYoepuDhbkaoSu%2BN6b9bq1m%3Dd6B3C8vtBTQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >>> . >>> >> -- >> Sent from Gmail Mobile >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "TVorNotTV" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> > To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYKOr%2BEt2ZLLY75WP%2BWUEq-_rfGZndsHSg6W1RzP_RX9LQ%40mail.gmail.com >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYKOr%2BEt2ZLLY75WP%2BWUEq-_rfGZndsHSg6W1RzP_RX9LQ%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> >> . >> > -- > Kevin M. (RPCV) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "TVorNotTV" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4CPSmj2annMeVwnJBZnk9JHdVuALRW27Q0tBicGtcCGkw%40mail.gmail.com > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKgmY4CPSmj2annMeVwnJBZnk9JHdVuALRW27Q0tBicGtcCGkw%40mail.gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > -- Sent from Gmail Mobile -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "TVorNotTV" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to tvornottv+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/tvornottv/CAKGtkYLc%3Dy77qFN5Fkpz3edOE8E_jm%2BBr2XnGuty91pOWov%3DgA%40mail.gmail.com.
