Hello Tobias, this can be a solution - in the future, currently it's not stable enough.
-> result of 2 minutes testing: http://forge.typo3.org/issues/42005 http://forge.typo3.org/issues/42003 Is DCE able to handle nested groups of fields, like TV does? Regards Kay Am 15.10.2012 09:52, schrieb Tobias Liegl: > Hey Thomas, Kay, > > I think you should have a look at the Dynamic Content Elements (DCE) > Extension. This should be what you are searching for: > > http://typo3.org/extensions/repository/view/dce > > You can create new elements in the TYPO3 Backend and style them with > Fluid (also in the Backend) - and without the need to use Templavoila. > > Regards, > Tobi > > > Am 15.10.12 09:23, schrieb Kay Strobach: >> Hello Thomas, >> >> do you think it would be enough to have some flexforms to define be >> input with irre (like tv) and related templates in fluid? >> >> This way we could define: >> >> a) the flexform to get the input fields you need >> b) one ore more rendering definitions for the data of the flexform >> >> addition to b) as fluid can render complex objects this could be a way >> to go, as this would allow people to built "custom" fce's. >> >> Additionally this can be automated lateron, so that we do not need any >> programming at all (similar to old extensionmanager) :D >> >> Regards >> Kay >> >> Am 12.10.2012 15:17, schrieb Thomas Skierlo: >>> Hi, >>> >>> spoiler ahead - apologies for the long text -- but it has to be this >>> way. Don't read if you don't have the time. >>> >>> it's perfectly clear that any thread like this must get the emotions >>> boiling, because one party is blaming the other for not taking the right >>> decisions or doing a bad job. I am quite sure that all developers are >>> working hard to improve the technology and to get TYPO3 to the next >>> level. This list, as well as the product TYPO3, wouldn't exist, if many >>> devoted people wouldn't have done a perfect job for many, many years -- >>> and are still doing today. >>> >>> To get an understanding of the integrator side please listen to my >>> personal history of TYPO3 usage. I started to learn TYPO3 basics in >>> 2008, building up a first, small, dev-site, using marker based >>> templates. While I did that I noticed the limitations, and that there >>> was another way to do things, which might be more powerful. After >>> reading "Futuristic template building" I instantly knew that this was >>> the way to go in future. Only TV seems to offer a way that one >>> (sub)content element is aware of other content elements within the same >>> data structure. You definitely need something like this to create FCEs >>> like tabs or accordions or even grid-elements with one empty column, >>> which must be handled differently to columns which aren't empty if the >>> markup should be semantic. From there on I lived with the CON aspect of >>> elements not being movable to other installations easily. Except this I >>> never reached any limits with TV. >>> >>> At that time the first rumors came up about a new TYPO3, which should be >>> developed in parallel to the existing 4.x branch and which should offer >>> a migration path for older versions once finished. A Manifesto, which is >>> much more than a letter of intent, was ensuring that I took the right >>> decision with TYPO3, because I noticed that people did care about >>> migration paths. At that very moment one alternative could have been to >>> build up a perfectly new CMS, which no migration paths at all. People >>> could have moved on with v. 4.x and than face a new learning curve for >>> the new technology, once this is ready for production. >>> >>> At that time I definitely preferred the Manifesto way, because I felt >>> that old-school ext.developers would stop further development and >>> support for "old" extensions instantly if all work would be lost after a >>> year or two. Even with the Manifesto still in place many of them stopped >>> support for their old extensions, which directly leads to the current >>> situation of TYPO3 being the best car in the world, with only a lack of >>> 2 tires. Everybody involved is perfectly sure that it will be the best >>> car on the marked again if someone would build the 2 tires missing. One >>> of the two tires missing is a working replacement for TV. Now you might >>> say: Hey, we gave you Extbase and Fluid, a Fluidtemplate object - and >>> FCE-killers like gridelements oder FED/Flux from the community. At least >>> I heard those words a couple of times, so I decided to stop my >>> commercial work a couple of month ago and move on to the new templating. >>> >>> The FLUIDTEMPLATE object works as a direct replacement of the TV page >>> template. Migration can be done withing a day without loosing anything. >>> BON. Only thing which is missing is a decent way to get some constants >>> into the Fluidtemplate, without defining them as variables. I asked for >>> help on the lists last month, but never got a hint or a solution. >>> Anyhow: Consider the page template done by means of Fluidtemplate. 100% >>> TV replacement. And even fun to do. >>> >>> Next in line was the "Grid" which modern, semantic and responsive >>> layouts like Twitter/Bootstrap need -- as well as all websites with a >>> modern look and feel. So I installed the first so called FCE killer: >>> Gridelements. With this extension one can build multicolumn content >>> elements which do their job, but since every column is handled >>> individually it seems not to be possible to manipulate content of one >>> column depending on the content of another column. Tried to find help on >>> the lists, but didn't get any. Tried to offer my help to one of the team >>> members (I tried it only once by email), but didn't get any reaction. >>> When it comes down to real grid-elements (=fixed multi-column >>> structures), I would give the current Gridelements ext. a 80% as TV >>> replacement, the BE view get's a 120%. >>> >>> My next try was to use Gridelements for a real FCE: An accordion. To >>> build up the 2-tier markup you either have to visit the database >>> multiple times (which is bad) and use another custom element (accordion >>> content) instead of "any content element" (which isn't good either) OR >>> you will not succeed. Sections are not supported, and sections are >>> needed to build some advanced FCEs. Current trunk version would get a >>> 20% as TV-FCE replacement from me. Spent 3 weeks with gridelements. Work >>> still unfinished. >>> >>> Next was FED/Flux: Did like the possibilities, but didn't like the >>> general concept from the very beginning. Wrapping private directives my >>> IDE doesn't understand around Fluid directives my IDE doesn't know >>> either, kind of parser for a parser. Started with the page template >>> following the detailed explanations on the very good and helpful website >>> -- but didn't succeed. No output at all except fatals. Maybe I've only >>> installed a broken version from trunk? Don't know. Spent 3 or 4 days >>> until I moved on to getting the job done by an own extbase extension. I >>> never loved the idea of "writing an extension" just to get a custom >>> content element -- in my naive thinking this basic scaffolding should be >>> part of the CMS base functionality. >>> >>> Now, after spending a couple of month with extbase I still didn't >>> succeed in building my own content elements. Had issues with caching and >>> localization. Tried to analyze other, basic, extbase extensions from TER >>> to get a way to handle BE modules, but didn't find many suitable for my >>> learning. I am quite sure that it's possible to do the job with extbase, >>> but once you got stuck the time needed to get a step further is much too >>> long to still behave responsible. >>> >>> Another possible player might be "WEC content elements" way back from >>> 2010. It addresses some of my current problems and it supports sections. >>> But the project is not available on forge, has no issue tracker and >>> seems not to be active any more. Didn't try it. Was getting too tired >>> trying stuff. >>> >>> During the last days I took a first look at Typo3 Neos. My primary >>> aspect of this first look was to find deeper similarities to extbase >>> from the current 4.x versions. My first impression is that it might be >>> much easier to start all over again without any extbase knowledge from >>> 4.x, except DDD and MVC principles. At least Fluid looks similar. >>> Awareness of content seems to be built-in. Very promising. But: Not >>> ready for production. Can learn it today, but wouldn't use it for a >>> while for real life projects. If I now move on with my current problems >>> to Neos, I still have no solutions for them in the 4.x range. Besides >>> that: Does anybody still believe in any later migration path? From 6 to >>> Neos? I don't. Typoscript2 has not similarities with the current >>> Typoscript and markers are (luckily) unknown. So we might be in that >>> very situation which would have been the only alternative in the early >>> times of the Manifesto. >>> >>> One thing seems to be pretty clear: There's no room for TV in the Neos >>> world, so my motivation to get it to version 6.x wouldn't be too big, >>> since it will be the final -- call it burial - level. On the other hand, >>> there is no current alternative. At least I couldn't find any. Now >>> substitute TV with any other important extension name, and you'll get >>> closer to the real problem we are all facing today. >>> >>> Please don't be too harsh with people getting nervous about TYPO3. >>> Better listen to their words by filtering out any emotions which might >>> spoil the real meaning. Many people did invest a fortune to "understand" >>> TYPO3. To learn, how it can be used to even build up an own business. If >>> they feel, that their personal invest is taken at risk, they are getting >>> nervous. Some will tell you about that feelings, others will not, just >>> moving on to other products silently. >>> >>> I would have loved to participate much more in the community, either by >>> member fees or personal labor. Just imagine my 4-month struggle with a >>> working FCE replacement, which isn't been over yet. What a waste of >>> time, one might think. Would love to give back my solution to the >>> community, but couldn't find any. Would love to give my time to the >>> community, but can't spare any because I have to keep up with new >>> techniques. >>> >>> What I am missing is a TYPO3 team "above" the core team -- let's call >>> them "Big Picture Ensurers", "Keepers of Usability" or "Tamers of >>> Scientists" (especially the last task is often the most unpleasant, but >>> mostly needed one). Is the current official version of TYPO3 INCLUDING >>> mission critical community extensions still able to build up a modern, >>> 2012 website? Is it still a suitable base for integrators, or has it >>> moved to a state which can only be handled by developers? If so, >>> wouldn't it be fair to share this very important information? And >>> please, don't mention 4.5LTS. It is not really a long term solution. >>> What might help with the problems might be another LTS commitment. At >>> least this worked better than the Manifesto :-) >>> >>> I'm quite sure that extbase/Fluid is excellent. Probably FED/Flux is >>> excellent too. Why not combine both into one, or even add Gridelements, >>> for BE presentation? I didn't find "my" solution in any part of the >>> active players group. >>> >>> Why don't give the outside world a break by slowing down any further >>> development of new technology before the old one had a decent chance to >>> keep up? At least until all basic scaffolding can be done with on-board >>> tools or system extensions. Until that time only good old TemplaVoila >>> seems to be able to give all the answers needed when it comes to >>> templates. >>> >>> Can't imagine that I'm the only one with this FCE problem today. Where >>> can I join any kind of FCE task force or at least get in touch with >>> others struggling with the same beast right now? >>> >>> Would have loved to post my words outside an indexed world of search >>> engines, but for people like me this list is the only place available >>> for discussions of essential matter. I spent too much time with TYPO3 to >>> have any defeatist motives -- which would take all my personal invest at >>> the risk of total loss. >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> >>> Thomas Skierlo >>> >> >> > -- http://www.kay-strobach.de - Open Source Rocks TYPO3 .... inspiring people to share! 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