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"We shouldn't have two teams, and we as a community shouldn't want
two. My messages have been an explicit attempt to try to avoid this -
thus my concern about communication methods and membership." Which is where we began this discussion - it is easy to look back on a forum and see where, why and when an initiative began. It is not possible to do that on a marketing list. I agree that we shouldn't have two teams - but it appears that we already have. Again, one can reflect on its history, the other can't. "we make a marketing topic on ubuntuforums.org. That allows people from the user community who generally want to interact through forums to do so." We have already attempted that, and because there has been no structure for this (which has now been brought to the table), one was created. It was welcomed by the admins in the forums and useful to the wiki team. It is not within the scope of the forums. Our time is not paid for, it is provided, voluntarily - so we have much more urgency to use our time effectively. And it is most important that it is a community team. "We need to sort some of these things out and move on to defining what this team will do in order to get approval from the Community Council and even be a team at all" So there is no team? Ok, now I'm confused. I thought we were supposed to establish our scope and make a proposal for that? We are a team. Without a team, a scope cannot be established. I think you mean a 'Community Council Approved" team. So far, there has been much discussion about simplistic aspects of the implementation, an eventual understanding of the reasons for a forum and much wasted time and energy that could have been directed towards furthering the spread of Ubuntu - to the benefit of opensource in the high street. I propose that you are trying to fix something that is not a problem, instead of enabling individuals to innovate and advocate. This has been to the detriment of our progression. I think a Canonical representaive suggesting what 'we' should do, as a community is a bit 'Microsoft'. It has an unfair bias, the pressure of which is felt by all subscribers. ;) The very projects you are now deciding how to administer did not exist up until 2 weeks ago - ask yourself why. Then ask yourself if you should be trying to change the way those projects are administered. Please remember that in order for us to Fix Bug #1 - Ubuntu is simply the vehicle. To the betterment and proliferation of opensource and free software. It is just the best contender we have seen to date and the first to be truly 'ready'. I think we should put that in perspective. I think we should also put in perspective that Canonical's Marketing and a community team marketing Ubuntu is most certainly connected - but in _no_way_ the same thing. And although I love the 'cute' idea of everyone dipping in everywhere - if you really want to compete on the high street desktop market, it has no legs. Focus will become blurred, participants will become distracted _the_very_thing_ Mark communicated to me as his fear, in the beginning. Brilliant people, distracted by other activities. A modular approach, small mountains is the only way to break down a big target - and flooding my inbox with discussions about 'do we need a forum' when new users that arrive tomorrow cannot see this conversation - I'd say that's a waste of valuable time - and purely illogicical. It's much easier to teach someone about to switch their desktop, than it is to communicate with individuals with conflicting business interests. Oh ya - and that's what I'm doing whilst you're worrying about admin - spreading on the ground. If it ain't broke..... I am unsubscribing from this thread, as it has already had the effect that I feared - it has become a distraction from the projects I am involved in - and I only have 18 hours a day to work on them. ;) If Canonical would like to issue postings for the forum, a proposal for destroying the forum or any other methods to kill the momentum - please contact via the liaison and we'll discuss it as a team, poll your suggestions and make sure everyone has voted and get back to you -(albeit and 'unofficial' team - but it seems there isn't an official one). Lloyd *unsubscribed* |
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