On Fri, Jun 13, 2008 at 9:11 AM, John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Tord, > > Thank you for clarifying that for us all. Being relatively new here, I > was actually beginning to believe the myth myself, hard as it was to > try and swallow. > > And for the sake of honesty and openness, duplication, or as I like to > refer to it - secession - is an option that I am not ruling out for > myself. Depends on what happens here in the next few days. I don't understand why you're getting so frustrated and feel the need to consider withdrawing from the marketing team. Can you help me understand? > > > On Fri, 13 Jun 2008 13:56:21 +0200 > "Tord Jansson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Just a quick note to clear up one central misconception: > > > > There is no one single way in which all FOSS projects work. Some > > people here are trying to spread that mantra but that is in my > > opinion a myth. There are tens of thousands of FOSS projects out > > there which are organized in totally different ways. > > > > They also very often have strong central leadership with a clear > > focus and a select few with commit access to CVS repositories, > > administration rights to web pages etc. They are seldom democratic in > > the normal sense with voting etc and many have even dictators for > > life (Theo DeRaadt of OpenBSD seems like a good example, correct me > > if I'm wrong). > > > > What separates them from non FOSS projects is mainly a high level of > > transparency and openness. The concept of being able to fork the > > project is also very central, making it easy for a group to break out > > and do their own thing if the current leadership doesn't work for > > them. This all helps to keep it honest and focused on the important > > goals since the whole project, including its leaders, easily can be > > replaced by a duplicate at any time. > > > > > > > > Regards, > > Tord > > > > > > 2008/6/13 John Botscharow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > > > Hash: SHA1 > > > > > > For those who do not wish to read and/or participate in > > > strategy/structure discussions, feel free to ignore this message. > > > > > > I have heard a lot of discussion here about how things work in a > > > FOSS community and want to offer some insights on that and how it > > > relates to what marketing is. This is a lengthy post, but I would > > > very much appreciate you all reading it in its entirety before > > > commenting. > > > > > > When you talk about FOSS communities and how they do things, that > > > seems to be referring to communities of developers - operative word > > > here. That model works well with things like software packages, > > > documentation projects, translation projects. even artwork projects > > > - where you are producing a discrete tangible product. But > > > marketing, although it uses discrete tangible products, and one > > > might even consider a specific marketing campaign like the one I am > > > working out, as a tangible, discrete product, the real purpose of > > > marketing, especially marketing something like Ubuntu is much more > > > intangible. > > > > > > We are trying to change the way people think and feel and act - > > > their buying habits. Every marketing project is or should be > > > focused on that goal, and that goal alone. Yes, a specific > > > marketing project can have a more specific tangible goal, like > > > giving away 1000 LiveCDs at a convention, but that goal does not > > > exist outside of or separate from, the overall goal of changing > > > peoples minds and behavior. > > > > > > Any of these tangible discrete marketing projects that is not done > > > within the context of the greater marketing goal is not really > > > serious marketing. And because of this need for integration into > > > the greater marketing goal, there has to be some kind of "power" > > > structure - a lead marketer is the term used in a lot of marketing > > > agencies - to ensure that individual projects are integrated and > > > coordinated with each other. That is not something that can be done > > > by consensus or anarchy. Someone - either an individual or a > > > committee - has to take responsibility for that. > > > > > > This individual/committee has to take responsibility for achieving > > > the marketing needs and goals of the customer - in this case, the > > > Ubuntu community. Someone has to be held accountable for meeting > > > those needs. > > > > > > There is, IMHO, no one, not ever Cody, the team administrator, who > > > is held accountable for or takes responsibility for whether the > > > marketing team is meeting the marketing needs of the Ubuntu > > > community. > > > > > > That is what I am working on in discussions with some other people > > > on this team who have expressed interest in team leadership - a > > > proposal for a group of marketers who will be responsible for and > > > held accountable for achieving the marketing goal - Fixing Bug #1 - > > > of the Ubuntu community. And, IMHO, that is what the entire Ubuntu > > > community is waiting for us to do - why they are so interested in > > > this discussion. > > > > > > Given that no one, as far as I can tell, has much of a marketing > > > success track record, operative word being marketing, selecting this > > > committee by meritocracy is not possible. An election is an option > > > but that takes time. and at this point in the history of this team, > > > I am not sure that the results of such an election would be the > > > best for meeting the needs of the Ubuntu community. > > > > > > My opinion on this, and these are the people, with one exception, I > > > have tried to get together are the people on this list who have > > > publicly expressed a desire and willingness to be responsible, and > > > hopefully - although we have not yet discussed this - be held > > > accountable for meeting the marketing goal of the Ubuntu community. > > > And who either have prior MARKETING experience or have exhibited > > > that they understand what marketing is all about. Sorry, people, > > > but, IMHO, most of you have a very limited understanding of > > > marketing and how it works. That's not a criticism but a statement > > > of fact based on my observations of what is being said and done > > > here. > > > > > > I am not familiar with all the in and outs, both technical and > > > political, of how things get done on the Ubuntu community. But I do > > > know marketing, having done it in one form or another since I was a > > > kid with a paper route. And, honestly, knowing marketing should be > > > the ONLY real criteria for leadership on this team. Anything else > > > can be delegated to people with the appropriate technical skills or > > > political savvy. > > > > > > Finally, if the FOSS model that seems to be invoking as something > > > sacrosanct does not work for this team, then let's find one that > > > does work. But, IMO. the REAL FOSS model does work with some > > > modification, perhaps, because of the particular place this team is > > > at at this particular time. Reserve judgment until you actually > > > have something to judge and stop nitpicking because we are perhaps > > > going against what everyone else is supposedly doing. > > > > > > - -- > > > Peace! > > > > > > John > > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > > > > > iD8DBQFIUlhVsTN+hz1Fu7URAlBYAJ0Sv3vAGsT0Xa/C1Ou9fEo1EYbUQgCeOKjL > > > nCkpJIVDgEvpJNXaXST8c98= > > > =EiSk > > > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > > -- > > > ubuntu-marketing mailing list > > > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing > > > > > > - -- > Peace! > > John > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) > > iD8DBQFIUmP9sTN+hz1Fu7URAkkwAKCD190Q8jD+9J+6JbrRhTbGNQVzbACfTvA9 > oYo5kFeIGpZl6cWfRXfoJnE= > =a+JG > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > -- > ubuntu-marketing mailing list > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing > -- Cody A.W. Somerville Software Engineer Red Cow Marketing & Technologies, Inc. Office: 506-458-1290 Toll Free: 1-877-733-2699 Fax: 506-453-9112 Cell: 506-449-5899 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.redcow.ca
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