>> We shouldn't be explaining the benefits of using Open Source software. >> Nobody cares except the people that already know, and even if they do care, >> and don't know, then there are already millions of webpages debating that. >> > >I find that statement a little troubling. Are you able to expand on what you >mean? Are you saying that in Ubuntu-specific material, we shouldn't talk >about applications?
Sorry if this part was confusing. While I think that there are so many benefits to using FOSS, I think that to most consumers the idea of FOSS is very confusing. I have tried to explain this to some of my clients when they are making software decisions. I think if we market FOSS, in general, then most consumers won't get it. They will ask all the same questions that has been answered on many other sites. How is it free? What if the person responsible with an app decides to stop working on it? Is free software really of the same quality as paid software? etc etc etc. What we should be doing, rather than talking about how amazing FOSS is in general, is focusing on certain apps for certain solutions (You like to take a lot of photos? Well, Ubuntu comes with an amazing Photo Album application that will allow you organize all your photos!!!). I don't think that we should completely cut out the mention of FOSS, but we should be focusing on it as it applies primarily to Ubuntu. The discussion in general about FOSS (What is it? How does it work? etc) is covered in so many other places, we shouldn't need to cover that debate, as it will only end up confusing for casual consumers. >Careful with analogies & counter-factuals: Here in New Zealand, McDonalds *does >*market farmers' beef. All meat is free range here. I see it as the NZ >corporation distancing itself from practices everywhere else in the world. Sorry, I was pretty grumpy when I was writing this post. It was after a long day of work. My point here wasn't to focus on restaurants. It was to explain that we should only be using arguments that will support Ubuntu, and reduce consumer confusion, because a confused potential customer, is less likely to buy. Where I'm from, few, if any, restaurants advertise free range. Some places are just now beginning to advertise "Local Produce." A lot of people still get confused by these terms, because they aren't sure if it means organic, within the state, region, country, etc. So, since it is confusing, it's just not used much. By marketing FOSS in general, I think that we have a lot more to lose than to gain, because of the confusion still associated with it. Most people are still not sure what to think about something that is free (at least in my experience). So, back to my original point, we should be marketing benefits/solutions, and how to easily achieve those. >These are all features, not benefits. We should be marketing benefits, not >features. Benefits are much more emotional, which is why consumers make >purchase decisions. Feature lists have been the status quo that has brought >Ubuntu to the chasm. They will only slowly bring us out of it. Improved productivity would be an example of a benefit, a music store is both a feature and a benefit. I agree that most of them are features. The point is to figure out how features benefit the users, and that is what I was trying to say here. We should have materials that show how to do the most mundane tasks quickly and easily. >However, is this marketing team able to influence what appears in stores? I >think we should focus on the demand-side, rather than the supply-side of >Ubuntu. Let Canonical talk to Dell & HP. This team can focus its energy on >consumers. Forgive me, I was under the impression that this list was also connected with the Canonical team and not just a community marketing list. Bryan On Wed, Aug 18, 2010 at 9:13 AM, <ubuntu-marketing-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com>wrote: > Send ubuntu-marketing mailing list submissions to > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > ubuntu-marketing-requ...@lists.ubuntu.com > > You can reach the person managing the list at > ubuntu-marketing-ow...@lists.ubuntu.com > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of ubuntu-marketing digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: ubuntu-marketing Digest, Vol 56, Issue 20 (Martin Owens) > 2. Query (Roscoe) > 3. Re: Query (Alan Pope) > 4. Re: marketing etc (Mike Feravolo) > 5. Re: ubuntu-marketing Digest, Vol 56, Issue 20 (Tim McNamara) > 6. Re: ubuntu-marketing Digest, Vol 56, Issue 20 (Andy Watson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 17:34:11 -0400 > From: Martin Owens <docto...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-marketing] ubuntu-marketing Digest, Vol 56, Issue > 20 > To: Lisandro Vaccaro <lisandro.vacc...@gmail.com> > Cc: ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com, Bryan Ogden > <bry...@ogden-computers.com> > Message-ID: <1282080851.23321.188.ca...@delen> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" > > On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 18:26 -0300, Lisandro Vaccaro wrote: > > I'm sorry. I just hope there were more active projects on the list. > > idk the wiki has a long way to go before it becomes a decent tool. > > *sigh* > > So why did you complain about not writing these things down? Your not > prepared to help fix the problem your complaining about. > > Martin, > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 14:52:51 -0700 > From: Roscoe <iankr...@gmail.com> > Subject: [ubuntu-marketing] Query > To: Ubuntu Marketing <ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com> > Message-ID: > > <aanlktinv+zk0x2u7uuypb8umoqzxsgpkv-taihoif...@mail.gmail.com<aanlktinv%2bzk0x2u7uuypb8umoqzxsgpkv-taihoif...@mail.gmail.com> > > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > So how come if I send an email to the list it does not appear to show > up on the list, but it did show up on the digest later on? > Just wondering if I have done some config the wrong way or summat? > > -- > Ian "Roscoe" Ross > breathe in | breathe out | move on..... > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 22:53:38 +0100 > From: Alan Pope <a...@popey.com> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-marketing] Query > To: Roscoe <iankr...@gmail.com> > Cc: Ubuntu Marketing <ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com> > Message-ID: > <aanlktinmgxx0wm-cc7yzcnm_1modekj2jvi=t-y=d...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On 17 August 2010 22:52, Roscoe <iankr...@gmail.com> wrote: > > So how come if I send an email to the list it does not appear to show > > up on the list, but it did show up on the digest later on? > > Just wondering if I have done some config the wrong way or summat? > > > > Welcome to gmail. The gmail web interface hides mail from yourself > unless/until someone replies to it. Like I just did. > > Cheers, > Al. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:50:37 -0400 > From: Mike Feravolo <321.784.5...@earthlink.net> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-marketing] marketing etc > To: ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > Message-ID: <4c6b204d.90...@earthlink.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hello: > > Are there any interesting videos for ubuntu produced by the marketing > team. We would like to use one as an example for a future facebook wall > post about marketing free software. We run a little community page on > facebook the seven thousand people like and thought this might interest > some of them. > > Thanks > > Mike F. > http://facebook.com/LinuxHelp > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:07:57 +1200 > From: Tim McNamara <paperl...@timmcnamara.co.nz> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-marketing] ubuntu-marketing Digest, Vol 56, Issue > 20 > To: Bryan Ogden <bry...@ogden-computers.com> > Cc: ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > Message-ID: > <aanlktinpyk7qs5ldgt0jokcaufl0_sv=e7jqjchvm...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > On 18 August 2010 00:46, Bryan Ogden <bry...@ogden-computers.com> wrote: > > > I'm actually shocked that this is an argument at all. Marketing teams > > market their products, not anyone else's. You don't see McDonalds > marketing > > for the "farmers" that raise the cattle where they get their beef. They > > market solutions for hunger. > > > Careful with analogies & counter-factuals: Here in New Zealand, McDonalds > *does > *market farmers' beef. All meat is free range here. I see it as the NZ > corporation distancing itself from practices everywhere else in the world. > > Also, top-posting a digest makes it impossible to see what argument you're > unhappy about. > > Lastly, please try to stay positive and assume good faith. > > > > That's what we should be doing with Ubuntu. > > > > So, what are our solutions? > > 1. Productivity - With Ubuntu Office (OOo) you have everything you need > and > > more in one package at no extra cost. This includes built-in > compatibility > > with MS Office. > > > ... > > > 9. The list goes on and on... > > > > > But that's not all. Have old computers that are starting to get sluggish? > > Ubuntu is a great replacement for Virus and spyware ridden systems. > > > > These are all features, not benefits. We should be marketing benefits, not > features. Benefits are much more emotional, which is why consumers make > purchase decisions. Feature lists have been the status quo that has brought > Ubuntu to the chasm. They will only slowly bring us out of it. > > Finally, a system built for humans!!! > > > > Agreed! But how to we sell this to consumers? > > > > Give them a document explaining how to back up their files in Windows XP > > and Vista, so that they can easily move them over to Ubuntu. > > > > Do they need a document? The installer does this automatically... > > > > Secondly, there needs to be some type of info going to Mfg's. Let's face > > it. Most people buy a computer, and never mess with the OS. We have to > get > > them at the point of purchase, or they will just stick with Windows. > > > > I strongly agree with this sentiment. Until bug #1 is fixed, MS Windows > will > always have majority share in the stats. > > However, is this marketing team able to influence what appears in stores? I > think we should focus on the demand-side, rather than the supply-side of > Ubuntu. Let Canonical talk to Dell & HP. This team can focus its energy on > consumers. > > > > Lastly, I think it's great and all that Ubuntu is open source, but it > > should really have the Linux separated from it in the marketing. > > > > This was agreed to several weeks ago. It's been Canonical's practice for > several years. > > [snip] > > We shouldn't be explaining the benefits of using Open Source software. > > Nobody cares except the people that already know, and even if they do > care, > > and don't know, then there are already millions of webpages debating > that. > > > > I find that statement a little troubling. Are you able to expand on what > you > mean? Are you saying that in Ubuntu-specific material, we shouldn't talk > about applications? > > > > Quick, easy, pointed info promoting Ubuntu and the ways that Ubuntu can > > make your computing experience easier!!! > > > > The documentation team is really focused on creating high-quality, free > licenced guides to Ubuntu. > > > > That's just my opinion though. > > > > Bryan > > > > Thanks for your input Brian! Looking forward to your response. > > Tim > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/attachments/20100818/a5a7525e/attachment-0001.htm > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2010 20:14:21 -0400 > From: Andy Watson <watson...@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [ubuntu-marketing] ubuntu-marketing Digest, Vol 56, Issue > 20 > To: Lisandro Vaccaro <lisandro.vacc...@gmail.com> > Cc: "ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com" > <ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com> > Message-ID: <84f2b393-dc2e-4b61-ab1f-4a722c4bf...@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Re: FOSS being mentioned all the time > > I don't want to alarm anyone but a lot of people aren't programmers, > designers, translators or want to be helpful in anyway. After all, it is > just an operating system. A lot of people don't care about their OS. > > If you go and start telling them that it's open and they can modify it > anyway they want, I personally don't think they'd care too much. They just > want it to work and not have to fuss with it. > > Re: Linux being advertised with it. > > I use to always mention Linux when talking about Ubuntu to someone that had > never heard of it before. I soon realized that this was a bad idea when > everyone got a glaze over their eyes and started to hum to themselves once I > said "Linux". > > If you mention Linux, you have to explain first about Ubuntu, then Linux, > then about distros, etc. It just becomes too much. > > Does Apple advertise that a Mac came from Unix or BSD or what it originated > from? No. We should learn from this huge company that does marketing very > well and stick with just Ubuntu. > > Just my thoughts. > > Andy Watson > watson...@gmail.com > watson...@msn.com > > On 2010-08-17, at 5:26 PM, Lisandro Vaccaro <lisandro.vacc...@gmail.com> > wrote: > > > I'm sorry. I just hope there were more active projects on the list. > > idk the wiki has a long way to go before it becomes a decent tool. > > > > Just for the record, FOSS has to be mentioned, always. There are a lot of > reasons for it, bust first of all, the OS is great but if it wasn't FOSS it > would just be an average, though very secure OS compared to Mac or Seven. > > > > That doesn't mean that it can't be said with a different set of words, > like for example "everyone is free to use it and improve it" which transfers > not only that is FOSS but also opens your way to the benefits of it. > > > > In the facebook page there are several mentions of FOSS but the word is > never written. > > > > "Be part of something amazing." > > > > "Ubuntu is a community developed operating system that is perfect for > laptops, desktops and servers. Thanks to volunteers from all over the world, > everyone can use Ubuntu completely free of charge." > > > > ...Ubuntu is made for sharing, everyone can use it, change it and improve > it." > > > > > > > > > > 2010/8/17 Martin Owens <docto...@gmail.com> > > On Tue, 2010-08-17 at 17:14 -0300, Lisandro Vaccaro wrote: > > > I don't want to repeat the same things but unless we set these kind of > > > things straight and record the conclusions somewhere, these > > > discussions are meaningless, even if you two decided on one point or > > > another, what are you going to do? Will anybody even know the > > > discussion take place? You won't change the way all the sites, locos > > > and users handle promotion and in a few weeks someone else will bring > > > the issue back to the MK list. > > > > Would you mind taking on the job of minute taker? We have that new wiki > > page to record this stuff and perhaps we need some editing and such, but > > we could do with it recorded your right. > > > > > Also do you handle Ubuntu's page or anything? We are debating about > > > things like if just talking could change the course of the whole > > > Ubuntu community, yet there is no initiative to share the point of > > > view with everyone, no initiative to tell everyone what it would be > > > the right thing to do. It's just a little debate that will end up one > > > way or another and will be lost on the list, again, until somebody in > > > less than a month brings the same issue back, again. > > > > I thought we did? We are a part of the community and in essence control > > a very small singular part of it. Of course we'd like to convince others > > that are arguments are rational too, for that I use a blog on the > > planet :-D > > > > If we have a good document, I could promote it to wider circles. > > > > Martin, > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Lisandro H. Vaccaro > > > > -- > > ubuntu-marketing mailing list > > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-marketing/attachments/20100817/292cab45/attachment.htm > > ------------------------------ > > -- > ubuntu-marketing mailing list > ubuntu-marketing@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-marketing > > > End of ubuntu-marketing Digest, Vol 56, Issue 23 > ************************************************ > -- Thank you, Bryan Ogden Ogden Computers www.ogden-computers.com 918.246.6449
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