Ochan Otim I moved on, but there are times I look back on the track to see if all are moving forward with me, I have to go back and help them move along too, assuming they haven't fallen down the rock face.
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Ochan Otim Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 9:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Kony_M7 bedfellows, RE: Sunday Vision: Depopulate Acholiland, orders Kony Ed, not you again relapsing! I though you moved up permanently a notch in the last two years. I was beginning to believe you. Ochan At 08:42 PM 3/4/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Emmanuel Musazi >Some of these guys are immovable in one gear - reverse mode. They are >stuck. Kawenkene; or nothing. >You can easily get blood out of a stone but pumping sense, good luck! > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf >Of emmanuel musaazi >Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:46 PM >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: ugnet_: Kony_M7 bedfellows, RE: Sunday Vision: Depopulate >Acholiland, orders Kony > >Look Ochan, are you illiterate. I have already said (please read my >posting >CAREFULLY, this is the problem with people of your ilk, you see things >in >one dimension, a one way train gone amok), i have not denied that there >were >crimes comitted by NRA soldiers, indeed even the president admitted to >the >fact, but again as i stated earlier, these erring soldiers were dealt >with...and i also said that this was in stack contrast to what your >brother >Obote (whos crimes don't seem to register on your radar screen, i guess >to >you every northerner is rightous), did to my people in the south where >it is >also clearly documented that well over 300, 000 human beings perished as >a >result of excesses of UNLA. YOUR BROTHER OBOTE IS LISTED AS A FUGITIVE >(GO >TO THIS HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH SITE FOR FURTHER DETAIL: >http://www.hrw.org/press/2003/07/torturers072103-bck.htm). HE IS LISTED >IN >THE COMPANY OF THE LIKES OF BABY DOC, MAINGISTU AMONG OTHER NOTORIOUS >EX-DICTATORS/KILLERS OF THE LAST CENTURY. The evidence on Obote and his >crimes pales in contrast to the half-truths you posted against our >President, most of which was dealt with (again most erring soldiers were > >dealt with). > >Has Obote ever criticized his lawless soldiers and tribes men for the >atrocities they committed in the south? no. Did he ever try to solve the > >problem? no. Has Obote ever apologized for horrendous crimes that >occured on >his watch (most of which he sanctioned)? no. On the other hand did >President >Museveni acknowledge that there were some criminal elements within the >ranks >of NRA (and for that matter UPDF)? yes, did he take steps to solve the >problem? yes (again erring soldiers were tried and punished). Has >president >Museveni ever apologized for some of the mis-adventures of govenment >soldiers? yes, he has even apologized to people of the north for >attrocities >perpetuated on them by one of there own (Kony). Further more President >Museveni is leading from the front, he is right now as we communicate in >the >north, seeing to the safety of notherners. I don't even think Obote ever > >visited luwero, to sympathize with the bereaved at the time. Instead he >just >sent more soldiers to kill. > >Mr. Ochan you have got to realise that we have our "people" too (it >appears >that is the kind of language you understand). Here is my argument with >you >fellows, i'll lay it out for you in very simple terms; to you >northerners >(and this is my recent observation, initially i never viewed this as a >north/south problem), Obote never did anything wrong throghout his 10yrs >in >power (yet there is clear evidence at home and abroad to the contrary), >if >we as southerners express our obviously bad experience with Obote, you >northerners see us as liers, you show no empathy whatsoever, yet you >northerners want us to view our president Museveni (a southerner) as the > >worst of the worst because of the conflict in the north, even though it >is >clear that Kony (a northerner) is responsible for most of the killing. >You >accuse us (southerners) of not showing enough concern and empathy. My >simple >response is this, i also care very much about my "poeple" and i also >think >that they deserve justice just as much as your "people" do, if you don't > >acknowledge my claim for justice for my people then don't bother asking >me >about yours. I'm sorry i have to put it that plainly but to me that is >the >stack reality. I am not one to beat about the bush, i see things as they >are >and say it as i see it. So don't bother playing games with me, i see it >all >and i'll continue callig it as it is...and don't bother bringing up >things >like "enjoy the blood of my people" with me, it just shows me how naive >you >are. > > > > >From: Ochan Otim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >Subject: RE: ugnet_: Kony_M7 bedfellows, RE: Sunday Vision: Depopulate > > >Acholiland, orders Kony > >Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:00:23 -0800 > > > >You cannot answer the question, is that true Bwana Emmanuel Musaazi? > > > >Again, here it is incase you missed it: provide alternative evidence > >[documented proofs: authors, publication, date, page numbers] to the > >contrary. > > > >Enjoy the blood of my people. > > > >Ochan Otim > > > > > >At 04:33 PM 3/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >>Mr. Ochan, what about Luwero, pandagari and all the other atrocities > >>committed by Obote and UPC, eehh!!!, those people who were killed in >the > >>south by Obote were not your "people" so you don't give a damn. It's >only > >>when a northerner dies that you know about your "people". You guys >have to > >>realise you are not dealing with foolish people, now you are >pretending > >>you care about your "people" and their "blood" if you care so much >about > >>them why don't you join the crusade to stop Kony...oh....i'm sorry i > >>forgot....Kony is your "brother" so it is okay for him to kill your > >>"people". > >> > >>>From: Ochan Otim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>Subject: RE: ugnet_: Kony_M7 bedfellows, RE: Sunday Vision: >Depopulate > >>>Acholiland, orders Kony > >>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:07:45 -0800 > >>> > >>>Bwana Emmanuel Musaazi: > >>> > >>>Since you have failed to prove that the quoted sources are inaccurate >- > >>>essentially meaning the contents of the sources are accurate - here >is a > >>>question for you to answer: "....feel free to provide alternative > >>>evidence [documented proof: authors, publication, date, page >numbers]." > >>> > >>>Failure to do so will simply put in the same category of others we >have > >>>seen here since 1996. Unless you do so, the "nonsense" will >rightfully > >>>belong to you. > >>> > >>>Enjoy the blood of my people. > >>> > >>>Ochan Otim > >>> > >>>At 09:21 AM 3/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: > >>>>Nonsense, your postings below are mainly based on writings from UPC > >>>>supporters. No one doubts the at the tail end of the reberation war, > > >>>>some indisciplined NRA soldiers may have been over taken by emotions >and > >>>>commited some crimes, indeed the President accepted that fact and >you > >>>>conviniently left out the fact that most of the offending soldiers >were > >>>>prosecuted, those that were found guilty were either imprisoned or > >>>>executed. This is in stack contrast to the UNLA under Obote, where > >>>>soldiers killed, raped, stole at random and in broad day light and > >>>>nothing got done about it. Secondly, UNLA is responsible for the >deaths > >>>>of hundreds and thousands of innocent people in Uganda, NRA never >even > >>>>came close to that, as i said most of the crimes commited by NRA > >>>>soldiers were prosecuted and erring soldiers punished. All you have > >>>>posted below, still does not answer you and your party's (UPC) > >>>>allegation that Kony is part and parcel of UPDF, you are just trying >(as > >>>>usual) to divert attention from the main issue which is your >allegation > >>>>that Kony and LRA are state sponsored by the government of Uganda. >Mr. > >>>>Ochan unless you can show me evidence to that effect, all your > >>>>communications are basically null and void and of no consequence. >SHOW > >>>>US THE LINK BETWEEN LRA AND GOVERNMENT. Thirdly, as far as i'm >concerned > >>>>there is no way anybody can justify what Kony and LRA are doing to >the > >>>>innocent people in the north. If your argument is that it is okay >for > >>>>northerners to lose there lives to Kony because NRA did x,y,z 14 >years > >>>>ago then you are as guilty as Kony and the LRA for the crimes that >they > >>>>are perpetuating on northerners. Mr. Ochan, Kony is a northerner >killing > >>>>northerners and devastating the north, now how can that be good for >the > >>>>north. Further more is your hatred of President Museveni so much >that > >>>>you are ready to openly endorse and support a person like Kony (a > >>>>northerner), killing northerners and destroying the north? just to >get > >>>>one back on the President. I'm sorry i don't get it. > >>>> > >>>>>From: Ochan Otim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >>>>>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>>>>Subject: ugnet_: Kony_M7 bedfellows, RE: Sunday Vision: Depopulate > >>>>>Acholiland, orders Kony > >>>>>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:21:44 -0800 > >>>>> > >>>>>To Bwana Emmanuel Musaazi and others: > >>>>> > >>>>>This letter written by Ogenga Otunnu to Bwana Matovu a while ago on > > >>>>>Ugandanet might explain this so-called pronouncement by Kony. To >the > >>>>>best of my knowledge, Bwana Matovu did not answer. > >>>>> > >>>>>Ochan Otim > >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------- >---------------------------------------- > >>>>>Brother Lutimba Matovu, > >>>>> > >>>>>Here is a tentative response to your request for evidence that >supports > >>>>>Prof. Ocan's observation. > >>>>> > >>>>>Ocan's observation focuses on three closely related issues: 1). >That > >>>>>museveni and Kony are bed fellows. There are many ways of examining > > >>>>>this issue. I will suggest only one: > >>>>> > >>>>>According to existing evidence, both men abducted, murdered and > >>>>>terrorized innocent people in their respective wars. Since there >are > >>>>>numerous reports about the activities of Kony, I will provide a few > > >>>>>evidence about Museveni's (I can also provide similar ones on >Kony)a). > >>>>>Terror and massacres of Muslims in Ankole in June 1979 (Uganda > >>>>>Government, Report of the Commission of Inquiry into Violations of > >>>>>Human Rights:31). b). Abductions and assassinations of civilians >(See, > >>>>>for a start, Amnesty International, Uganda (August 1981;1); AI, >Uganda: > >>>>>Six Years After Amin; Muwanga and Gombya, The Pearl of Africa is > >>>>>Bleeding). > >>>>> > >>>>>c). Attacks on civilian vehicles (See Africa Research Bulletin >(Dec. > >>>>>1-31, 1981: 6289BC). d). Massacres of civilians, while disguised as > > >>>>>soldiers (Lance-Sera Muwanga, Violence in Uganda: What is Inside > >>>>>Museveni's Uganda; Muwanga and Gombya, The Pearl of Africa is >Bleeding. > >>>>>See also what Kayira reported after a meeting with Museveni at the >NRA > >>>>>command post in Luwero: > >>>>> > >>>>>"There were no less than 50 heads at a quick count. We found >Museveni > >>>>>and the NRA soldiers inside the ring of human heads. He told us >while > >>>>>pointing at the heads: 'You see those heads? That is how I deal >with > >>>>>those who do not agree with me'" Cited in The Pearl of Africa is > >>>>>Bleeding. .e) Abductions and kidnapping (See "Uganda: The Fall of > >>>>>President Obote," Africa Confidential (I think, 1985) > >>>>> > >>>>>For similar acts of terror and atrocities since he seized power, >see > >>>>>Ogenga Otunnu, "An Historical Analysis of the Invasion of Rwanda," >in > >>>>>Adelman and Suhrke, eds, The Path of a Genocide; Otunnu, "The Path >of > >>>>>Genocide in Northern Uganda," Refuge, 17, 3 (1998); Uganda Law >Society, > >>>>>Matters of Concern to Uganda Law Society (1990); AI, Deaths in the > >>>>>Countryside: Killings of Civilians by the Army (1990); AI. The >Failure > >>>>>to Safeguard Human Rights (1992); Acholi Religious Leaders, Let My > > >>>>>People Go (2001). See also Museveni's address to Langi and Acholi >RCs > >>>>>and elders New Vision, March 28, 1994. In his address, he >reluctantly > >>>>>pointed out that "Sometimes, our own indisciplined soldiers took > >>>>>advantage of the breakdown of law and order caused by the rebellion >and > >>>>>committed atrocities against the civilian population... Mass rapes >and > >>>>>other atrocities are also mentioned in The New Vision, 29/1/1988; > >>>>>22/2/1988, etc. > >>>>> > >>>>>2). That Kony was created by Museveni. It is important to examine >the > >>>>>following: When the war of pacification/genocide started and >conditions > >>>>>that promoted and sustained the war. a). According to the >government, > >>>>>the first wave of massacres, mass rapes and instability in Acholi >was > >>>>>the work of FEDEMU (35th Batallion of NRA). However, FEDEMU claimed > > >>>>>that those atrocities were committed by NRA-proper. They further > >>>>>insisted that those who committed the atrocities were carrying out > >>>>>President Museveni's order (See, for example, Otunnu, The Path of > >>>>>Genocide). When Dr. Kayira learnt of the atrocities, he instructed > >>>>>ex-FEDEMU soldiers to provide arms to the Acholi to defend >themselves > >>>>>from the genocide. Subsequently, Kayira and two other prominent >Baganda > >>>>>were arrested. > >>>>> > >>>>>Here are a few examples of some of the atrocities that forced >people, > >>>>>who had accepted Museveni's rule in Acholi, to rebel: > >>>>> > >>>>>16/8/1986: the 35th batallion killed 32 innocent people in >Namukora. > >>>>>Over 100 homesteads were burnt down (names and occupation >available. > >>>>>See Amnesty > >>>>> > >>>>>International Report, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1992) > >>>>> > >>>>>18/8/1986: the 13th batallion, stationed at Akilok, killed 18 >unarmed > >>>>>civilians. Some of the civilians were burnt alive in their homes >(See, > >>>>>also AI reports above). > >>>>> > >>>>>20/9/1986: the 7th batallion, stationed at Oryang, Labongo, killed >22 > >>>>>unarmed civilians. Many men and women were also raped (see AI >reports; > >>>>>reports by Acholi Parliamentary Group; Report of the Committee on > >>>>>Defence and Internal Affairs on The war in Northern Uganda). > >>>>> > >>>>>A few example from Gulu > >>>>> > >>>>>April 1986: 55th batallion arrived at Purongo (Nwoya county) and >seized > >>>>>462 heads of cattle from the farm of the late Erinayo Oryema >(Inspector > >>>>>General of Police). In addition, Oryema's widow, Janet, was forced >to > >>>>>hand over farm (see report by Verona Fathers to AI) > >>>>> > >>>>>April 1986: the same batallion took 600 boran cattle from the farm >of > >>>>>Y.Y. Ongom of Agung. 8 farm workers were burried alive in a common >pit > >>>>>(see various AI reports on how widespread this form of genocide has > > >>>>>been in Acholi). > >>>>> > >>>>>June 1986: 1200 heads of cattle were taken by NRA from the farm of > >>>>>Tosiya Otim of Luke clan, Odek county. His son Kitara and 20 farm > >>>>>workers were killed in cold blood (The government denied that it >was > >>>>>involved in removing food and wealth/cattle. However, when human >rights > >>>>>groups presented evidence to the contrary, the government accepted > >>>>>responsibility for its behaviour). > >>>>> > >>>>>It was this act of genocide which turned the people against the > >>>>>Museveni regime. This explains how Museveni 'created' Kony. > >>>>> > >>>>>3). Why the genocidal war persists: > >>>>> > >>>>>I will provide only two examples: a). The war has become a good > >>>>>business for high-ranking soldiers. Some of the soldiers are >Museveni's > >>>>>relatives. > >>>>>President Museveni had this to say on the subject: "It is true that >in > >>>>>the past army officers were doing business out of the suffering of >the > >>>>>people of Acholi and they did not want it [the war] to end." (See >New > >>>>>Vision, Nov. 29, 1996). What Museveni refused to reveal was that >the > >>>>>war has remained a very good business for some of his relatives and > > >>>>>high-ranking officers. What is taking place in the DRC is, >therefore, > >>>>>not new. > >>>>> > >>>>>b). Rejection of the peace efforts. When the international >community > >>>>>exerted pressure on the regime to negotiate with the rebels, it > >>>>>reluctantly agreed. However, when Betty Bigombe and Kony had >reached a > >>>>>settlement to the conflict, Museveni wrecked the deal by order the >LRA > >>>>>to surrender within a week (See, for example, New Vision, Feb. 15, > >>>>>1994: 1-2). Museveni's attitude toward negotiated settlements has >not > >>>>>changed. > >>>>> > >>>>>Does the view of one of the leading Ugandan journalists, Kevin >Aliro, > >>>>>explain why some Ugandans are reluctant to see the genocide in >Acholi? > >>>>>Here is what he observed during the "photo" crisis (it is a long > >>>>>citation because it is important): > >>>>> > >>>>>I particularly understand the dilemma of some ordinary Ugandans >who, > >>>>>after many years of torture and oppression, don't want to believe >that > >>>>>the UPDF...could even dream of such atrocities against any >Ugandan... > >>>>>Ugandans are victims of self-denial and its associated symptoms. In > > >>>>>their subconscious... they know the UPDF, like previous armies, are > > >>>>>capable of all and worse. > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>Kevin further observed that: > >>>>> > >>>>>I was like such Ugandans. There were times when I would never >believe > >>>>>the UPDF would hurt a fly. I dismissed the Bur Coro incident (in >which > >>>>>innocent human beings were burried and smoked in a pit)as an >'isolated > >>>>>case of indiscipline.' > >>>>> > >>>>>He concluded by reflecting on the conspiracy of silence about the > >>>>>genocide: > >>>>> > >>>>>Deep inside, we [journalists] were also afraid. Afraid of the known > > >>>>>consequences of publishing anything that may be deemed by the >powers > >>>>>that be as 'damaging to the inage' of Museveni's sacred cow, the >NRA > >>>>>(now UPDF). Hundreds of other incidents came and went, most >unreported > >>>>>(Monitor, May 18, 1999: 13). > >>>>> > >>>>>Matovu, feel free to provide alternative evidence. Keep well, > >>>>> > >>>>>Ogenga Otunnu > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>>-------------------------------------------- > >>>>>This service is hosted on the Infocom network > >>>>>http://www.infocom.co.ug > >>>> > >>>>_________________________________________________________________ > >>>>Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online > >>>>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>-------------------------------------------- > >>>>This service is hosted on the Infocom network > >>>>http://www.infocom.co.ug > >>> > >>>Ochan Otim > >>>NB: I hope you will find time to read and sign a petition to stop >the > >>>Northern Uganda carnage at: > >>>http://www.petitiononline.com/savacoli/petition.html > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>-------------------------------------------- > >>>This service is hosted on the Infocom network > >>>http://www.infocom.co.ug > >> > >>_________________________________________________________________ > >>MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. > >>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > >> > >> > >> > >>-------------------------------------------- > >>This service is hosted on the Infocom network > >>http://www.infocom.co.ug > > > >Ochan Otim > >NB: I hope you will find time to read and sign a petition to stop the > >Northern Uganda carnage at: > >http://www.petitiononline.com/savacoli/petition.html > > > > > > > > > >-------------------------------------------- > >This service is hosted on the Infocom network > >http://www.infocom.co.ug > >_________________________________________________________________ >Get a FREE online computer virus scan from McAfee when you click here. >http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 > > > >-------------------------------------------- >This service is hosted on the Infocom network >http://www.infocom.co.ug > >--- >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.573 / Virus Database: 363 - Release Date: 1/28/2004 > > >--- >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.573 / Virus Database: 363 - Release Date: 1/28/2004 > > > > >-------------------------------------------- >This service is hosted on the Infocom network >http://www.infocom.co.ug Ochan Otim NB: I hope you will find time to read and sign a petition to stop the Northern Uganda carnage at: http://www.petitiononline.com/savacoli/petition.html -------------------------------------------- This service is hosted on the Infocom network http://www.infocom.co.ug --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. 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