Ochan
At 08:42 PM 3/4/2004 -0700, you wrote:
Emmanuel Musazi Some of these guys are immovable in one gear - reverse mode. They are stuck. Kawenkene; or nothing. You can easily get blood out of a stone but pumping sense, good luck!
-----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of emmanuel musaazi Sent: Thursday, March 04, 2004 7:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: ugnet_: Kony_M7 bedfellows, RE: Sunday Vision: Depopulate Acholiland, orders Kony
Look Ochan, are you illiterate. I have already said (please read my posting CAREFULLY, this is the problem with people of your ilk, you see things in one dimension, a one way train gone amok), i have not denied that there were crimes comitted by NRA soldiers, indeed even the president admitted to the fact, but again as i stated earlier, these erring soldiers were dealt with...and i also said that this was in stack contrast to what your brother Obote (whos crimes don't seem to register on your radar screen, i guess to you every northerner is rightous), did to my people in the south where it is also clearly documented that well over 300, 000 human beings perished as a result of excesses of UNLA. YOUR BROTHER OBOTE IS LISTED AS A FUGITIVE (GO TO THIS HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH SITE FOR FURTHER DETAIL: http://www.hrw.org/press/2003/07/torturers072103-bck.htm). HE IS LISTED IN THE COMPANY OF THE LIKES OF BABY DOC, MAINGISTU AMONG OTHER NOTORIOUS EX-DICTATORS/KILLERS OF THE LAST CENTURY. The evidence on Obote and his crimes pales in contrast to the half-truths you posted against our President, most of which was dealt with (again most erring soldiers were
dealt with).
Has Obote ever criticized his lawless soldiers and tribes men for the atrocities they committed in the south? no. Did he ever try to solve the
problem? no. Has Obote ever apologized for horrendous crimes that occured on his watch (most of which he sanctioned)? no. On the other hand did President Museveni acknowledge that there were some criminal elements within the ranks of NRA (and for that matter UPDF)? yes, did he take steps to solve the problem? yes (again erring soldiers were tried and punished). Has president Museveni ever apologized for some of the mis-adventures of govenment soldiers? yes, he has even apologized to people of the north for attrocities perpetuated on them by one of there own (Kony). Further more President Museveni is leading from the front, he is right now as we communicate in the north, seeing to the safety of notherners. I don't even think Obote ever
visited luwero, to sympathize with the bereaved at the time. Instead he just sent more soldiers to kill.
Mr. Ochan you have got to realise that we have our "people" too (it appears that is the kind of language you understand). Here is my argument with you fellows, i'll lay it out for you in very simple terms; to you northerners (and this is my recent observation, initially i never viewed this as a north/south problem), Obote never did anything wrong throghout his 10yrs in power (yet there is clear evidence at home and abroad to the contrary), if we as southerners express our obviously bad experience with Obote, you northerners see us as liers, you show no empathy whatsoever, yet you northerners want us to view our president Museveni (a southerner) as the
worst of the worst because of the conflict in the north, even though it is clear that Kony (a northerner) is responsible for most of the killing. You accuse us (southerners) of not showing enough concern and empathy. My simple response is this, i also care very much about my "poeple" and i also think that they deserve justice just as much as your "people" do, if you don't
acknowledge my claim for justice for my people then don't bother asking me about yours. I'm sorry i have to put it that plainly but to me that is the stack reality. I am not one to beat about the bush, i see things as they are and say it as i see it. So don't bother playing games with me, i see it all and i'll continue callig it as it is...and don't bother bringing up things like "enjoy the blood of my people" with me, it just shows me how naive you are.
>From: Ochan Otim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: RE: ugnet_: Kony_M7 bedfellows, RE: Sunday Vision: Depopulate
>Acholiland, orders Kony >Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 17:00:23 -0800 > >You cannot answer the question, is that true Bwana Emmanuel Musaazi? > >Again, here it is incase you missed it: provide alternative evidence >[documented proofs: authors, publication, date, page numbers] to the >contrary. > >Enjoy the blood of my people. > >Ochan Otim > > >At 04:33 PM 3/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: >>Mr. Ochan, what about Luwero, pandagari and all the other atrocities >>committed by Obote and UPC, eehh!!!, those people who were killed in the >>south by Obote were not your "people" so you don't give a damn. It's only >>when a northerner dies that you know about your "people". You guys have to >>realise you are not dealing with foolish people, now you are pretending >>you care about your "people" and their "blood" if you care so much about >>them why don't you join the crusade to stop Kony...oh....i'm sorry i >>forgot....Kony is your "brother" so it is okay for him to kill your >>"people". >> >>>From: Ochan Otim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>Subject: RE: ugnet_: Kony_M7 bedfellows, RE: Sunday Vision: Depopulate >>>Acholiland, orders Kony >>>Date: Thu, 04 Mar 2004 09:07:45 -0800 >>> >>>Bwana Emmanuel Musaazi: >>> >>>Since you have failed to prove that the quoted sources are inaccurate - >>>essentially meaning the contents of the sources are accurate - here is a >>>question for you to answer: "....feel free to provide alternative >>>evidence [documented proof: authors, publication, date, page numbers]." >>> >>>Failure to do so will simply put in the same category of others we have >>>seen here since 1996. Unless you do so, the "nonsense" will rightfully >>>belong to you. >>> >>>Enjoy the blood of my people. >>> >>>Ochan Otim >>> >>>At 09:21 AM 3/4/2004 -0500, you wrote: >>>>Nonsense, your postings below are mainly based on writings from UPC >>>>supporters. No one doubts the at the tail end of the reberation war,
>>>>some indisciplined NRA soldiers may have been over taken by emotions and >>>>commited some crimes, indeed the President accepted that fact and you >>>>conviniently left out the fact that most of the offending soldiers were >>>>prosecuted, those that were found guilty were either imprisoned or >>>>executed. This is in stack contrast to the UNLA under Obote, where >>>>soldiers killed, raped, stole at random and in broad day light and >>>>nothing got done about it. Secondly, UNLA is responsible for the deaths >>>>of hundreds and thousands of innocent people in Uganda, NRA never even >>>>came close to that, as i said most of the crimes commited by NRA >>>>soldiers were prosecuted and erring soldiers punished. All you have >>>>posted below, still does not answer you and your party's (UPC) >>>>allegation that Kony is part and parcel of UPDF, you are just trying (as >>>>usual) to divert attention from the main issue which is your allegation >>>>that Kony and LRA are state sponsored by the government of Uganda. Mr. >>>>Ochan unless you can show me evidence to that effect, all your >>>>communications are basically null and void and of no consequence. SHOW >>>>US THE LINK BETWEEN LRA AND GOVERNMENT. Thirdly, as far as i'm concerned >>>>there is no way anybody can justify what Kony and LRA are doing to the >>>>innocent people in the north. If your argument is that it is okay for >>>>northerners to lose there lives to Kony because NRA did x,y,z 14 years >>>>ago then you are as guilty as Kony and the LRA for the crimes that they >>>>are perpetuating on northerners. Mr. Ochan, Kony is a northerner killing >>>>northerners and devastating the north, now how can that be good for the >>>>north. Further more is your hatred of President Museveni so much that >>>>you are ready to openly endorse and support a person like Kony (a >>>>northerner), killing northerners and destroying the north? just to get >>>>one back on the President. I'm sorry i don't get it. >>>> >>>>>From: Ochan Otim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>>>>Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>>>>Subject: ugnet_: Kony_M7 bedfellows, RE: Sunday Vision: Depopulate >>>>>Acholiland, orders Kony >>>>>Date: Wed, 03 Mar 2004 13:21:44 -0800 >>>>> >>>>>To Bwana Emmanuel Musaazi and others: >>>>> >>>>>This letter written by Ogenga Otunnu to Bwana Matovu a while ago on
>>>>>Ugandanet might explain this so-called pronouncement by Kony. To the >>>>>best of my knowledge, Bwana Matovu did not answer. >>>>> >>>>>Ochan Otim >>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------------------------- >>>>>Brother Lutimba Matovu, >>>>> >>>>>Here is a tentative response to your request for evidence that supports >>>>>Prof. Ocan's observation. >>>>> >>>>>Ocan's observation focuses on three closely related issues: 1). That >>>>>museveni and Kony are bed fellows. There are many ways of examining
>>>>>this issue. I will suggest only one: >>>>> >>>>>According to existing evidence, both men abducted, murdered and >>>>>terrorized innocent people in their respective wars. Since there are >>>>>numerous reports about the activities of Kony, I will provide a few
>>>>>evidence about Museveni's (I can also provide similar ones on Kony)a). >>>>>Terror and massacres of Muslims in Ankole in June 1979 (Uganda >>>>>Government, Report of the Commission of Inquiry into Violations of >>>>>Human Rights:31). b). Abductions and assassinations of civilians (See, >>>>>for a start, Amnesty International, Uganda (August 1981;1); AI, Uganda: >>>>>Six Years After Amin; Muwanga and Gombya, The Pearl of Africa is >>>>>Bleeding). >>>>> >>>>>c). Attacks on civilian vehicles (See Africa Research Bulletin (Dec. >>>>>1-31, 1981: 6289BC). d). Massacres of civilians, while disguised as
>>>>>soldiers (Lance-Sera Muwanga, Violence in Uganda: What is Inside >>>>>Museveni's Uganda; Muwanga and Gombya, The Pearl of Africa is Bleeding. >>>>>See also what Kayira reported after a meeting with Museveni at the NRA >>>>>command post in Luwero: >>>>> >>>>>"There were no less than 50 heads at a quick count. We found Museveni >>>>>and the NRA soldiers inside the ring of human heads. He told us while >>>>>pointing at the heads: 'You see those heads? That is how I deal with >>>>>those who do not agree with me'" Cited in The Pearl of Africa is >>>>>Bleeding. .e) Abductions and kidnapping (See "Uganda: The Fall of >>>>>President Obote," Africa Confidential (I think, 1985) >>>>> >>>>>For similar acts of terror and atrocities since he seized power, see >>>>>Ogenga Otunnu, "An Historical Analysis of the Invasion of Rwanda," in >>>>>Adelman and Suhrke, eds, The Path of a Genocide; Otunnu, "The Path of >>>>>Genocide in Northern Uganda," Refuge, 17, 3 (1998); Uganda Law Society, >>>>>Matters of Concern to Uganda Law Society (1990); AI, Deaths in the >>>>>Countryside: Killings of Civilians by the Army (1990); AI. The Failure >>>>>to Safeguard Human Rights (1992); Acholi Religious Leaders, Let My
>>>>>People Go (2001). See also Museveni's address to Langi and Acholi RCs >>>>>and elders New Vision, March 28, 1994. In his address, he reluctantly >>>>>pointed out that "Sometimes, our own indisciplined soldiers took >>>>>advantage of the breakdown of law and order caused by the rebellion and >>>>>committed atrocities against the civilian population... Mass rapes and >>>>>other atrocities are also mentioned in The New Vision, 29/1/1988; >>>>>22/2/1988, etc. >>>>> >>>>>2). That Kony was created by Museveni. It is important to examine the >>>>>following: When the war of pacification/genocide started and conditions >>>>>that promoted and sustained the war. a). According to the government, >>>>>the first wave of massacres, mass rapes and instability in Acholi was >>>>>the work of FEDEMU (35th Batallion of NRA). However, FEDEMU claimed
>>>>>that those atrocities were committed by NRA-proper. They further >>>>>insisted that those who committed the atrocities were carrying out >>>>>President Museveni's order (See, for example, Otunnu, The Path of >>>>>Genocide). When Dr. Kayira learnt of the atrocities, he instructed >>>>>ex-FEDEMU soldiers to provide arms to the Acholi to defend themselves >>>>>from the genocide. Subsequently, Kayira and two other prominent Baganda >>>>>were arrested. >>>>> >>>>>Here are a few examples of some of the atrocities that forced people, >>>>>who had accepted Museveni's rule in Acholi, to rebel: >>>>> >>>>>16/8/1986: the 35th batallion killed 32 innocent people in Namukora. >>>>>Over 100 homesteads were burnt down (names and occupation available. >>>>>See Amnesty >>>>> >>>>>International Report, 1986, 1987, 1988, 1989, 1990, 1992) >>>>> >>>>>18/8/1986: the 13th batallion, stationed at Akilok, killed 18 unarmed >>>>>civilians. Some of the civilians were burnt alive in their homes (See, >>>>>also AI reports above). >>>>> >>>>>20/9/1986: the 7th batallion, stationed at Oryang, Labongo, killed 22 >>>>>unarmed civilians. Many men and women were also raped (see AI reports; >>>>>reports by Acholi Parliamentary Group; Report of the Committee on >>>>>Defence and Internal Affairs on The war in Northern Uganda). >>>>> >>>>>A few example from Gulu >>>>> >>>>>April 1986: 55th batallion arrived at Purongo (Nwoya county) and seized >>>>>462 heads of cattle from the farm of the late Erinayo Oryema (Inspector >>>>>General of Police). In addition, Oryema's widow, Janet, was forced to >>>>>hand over farm (see report by Verona Fathers to AI) >>>>> >>>>>April 1986: the same batallion took 600 boran cattle from the farm of >>>>>Y.Y. Ongom of Agung. 8 farm workers were burried alive in a common pit >>>>>(see various AI reports on how widespread this form of genocide has
>>>>>been in Acholi). >>>>> >>>>>June 1986: 1200 heads of cattle were taken by NRA from the farm of >>>>>Tosiya Otim of Luke clan, Odek county. His son Kitara and 20 farm >>>>>workers were killed in cold blood (The government denied that it was >>>>>involved in removing food and wealth/cattle. However, when human rights >>>>>groups presented evidence to the contrary, the government accepted >>>>>responsibility for its behaviour). >>>>> >>>>>It was this act of genocide which turned the people against the >>>>>Museveni regime. This explains how Museveni 'created' Kony. >>>>> >>>>>3). Why the genocidal war persists: >>>>> >>>>>I will provide only two examples: a). The war has become a good >>>>>business for high-ranking soldiers. Some of the soldiers are Museveni's >>>>>relatives. >>>>>President Museveni had this to say on the subject: "It is true that in >>>>>the past army officers were doing business out of the suffering of the >>>>>people of Acholi and they did not want it [the war] to end." (See New >>>>>Vision, Nov. 29, 1996). What Museveni refused to reveal was that the >>>>>war has remained a very good business for some of his relatives and
>>>>>high-ranking officers. What is taking place in the DRC is, therefore, >>>>>not new. >>>>> >>>>>b). Rejection of the peace efforts. When the international community >>>>>exerted pressure on the regime to negotiate with the rebels, it >>>>>reluctantly agreed. However, when Betty Bigombe and Kony had reached a >>>>>settlement to the conflict, Museveni wrecked the deal by order the LRA >>>>>to surrender within a week (See, for example, New Vision, Feb. 15, >>>>>1994: 1-2). Museveni's attitude toward negotiated settlements has not >>>>>changed. >>>>> >>>>>Does the view of one of the leading Ugandan journalists, Kevin Aliro, >>>>>explain why some Ugandans are reluctant to see the genocide in Acholi? >>>>>Here is what he observed during the "photo" crisis (it is a long >>>>>citation because it is important): >>>>> >>>>>I particularly understand the dilemma of some ordinary Ugandans who, >>>>>after many years of torture and oppression, don't want to believe that >>>>>the UPDF...could even dream of such atrocities against any Ugandan... >>>>>Ugandans are victims of self-denial and its associated symptoms. In
>>>>>their subconscious... they know the UPDF, like previous armies, are
>>>>>capable of all and worse. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>Kevin further observed that: >>>>> >>>>>I was like such Ugandans. There were times when I would never believe >>>>>the UPDF would hurt a fly. I dismissed the Bur Coro incident (in which >>>>>innocent human beings were burried and smoked in a pit)as an 'isolated >>>>>case of indiscipline.' >>>>> >>>>>He concluded by reflecting on the conspiracy of silence about the >>>>>genocide: >>>>> >>>>>Deep inside, we [journalists] were also afraid. Afraid of the known
>>>>>consequences of publishing anything that may be deemed by the powers >>>>>that be as 'damaging to the inage' of Museveni's sacred cow, the NRA >>>>>(now UPDF). Hundreds of other incidents came and went, most unreported >>>>>(Monitor, May 18, 1999: 13). >>>>> >>>>>Matovu, feel free to provide alternative evidence. Keep well, >>>>> >>>>>Ogenga Otunnu >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>-------------------------------------------- >>>>>This service is hosted on the Infocom network >>>>>http://www.infocom.co.ug >>>> >>>>_________________________________________________________________ >>>>Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online >>>>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>-------------------------------------------- >>>>This service is hosted on the Infocom network >>>>http://www.infocom.co.ug >>> >>>Ochan Otim >>>NB: I hope you will find time to read and sign a petition to stop the >>>Northern Uganda carnage at: >>>http://www.petitiononline.com/savacoli/petition.html >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>-------------------------------------------- >>>This service is hosted on the Infocom network >>>http://www.infocom.co.ug >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >>MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*. >>http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus >> >> >> >>-------------------------------------------- >>This service is hosted on the Infocom network >>http://www.infocom.co.ug > >Ochan Otim >NB: I hope you will find time to read and sign a petition to stop the >Northern Uganda carnage at: >http://www.petitiononline.com/savacoli/petition.html > > > > >-------------------------------------------- >This service is hosted on the Infocom network >http://www.infocom.co.ug
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Ochan Otim
NB: I hope you will find time to read and sign a petition to stop the Northern Uganda carnage at: http://www.petitiononline.com/savacoli/petition.html
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