Joseph Kamugisha
This thread is about how non soldiers were saved by Iddi Amin out of that war, and how Acholi’s simply raped but molested every woman during the Luwero war. Kindly stick to the facts we are on. Thank you. EM On the 49th Parallel Thé Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy" Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi "Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika machafuko" From: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com [mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Kamugisha Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 10:29 PM To: UG @ Heart Cc: Ugandan Discussion Forum; ugandanet@kym.net Subject: RE: {UAH} ACHOLI AND LANGI HASTILY ENROLLED WITH MINMAL TRAINING AND LITTLE SENSE OF DISCPLINE {Can we get a more independent source than this?} Geez !!!!!!!! And truly so, crazy Mulindwa, some of us were in Uganda too. Matter of fact, in or aroud November 1978, when your former boss Iddi Amin Dada, first commanded the invasion of Tanzania through Mutukula, his thugs came back from the mission which was described as "Very successful operation" on the then Uganda Television [UTV] and the Uganda Broadcasting Corporation [UBC] We watched on TV Uganda army soldiers trailing by road and others riding on open trucks showing off their loot from Tanzania, their miserable looking looted properties included, iron sheets torn from some of the border buildings, i understand there was a bank which was broken into and robed of the little money they found there. Other thugs were shown carrying mattresses, some were carrying chickens, goats and bicycles. Some of our former broadcasters on UTV present on this forum can testify to these facts. I remember reading from one of my best presenters of all time, Mr. Wanzama-Piro, former broadcaster at UTV with one of my TV evening programs the Four "W's" [WHO, WHERE, WHAT, WHEN] on this forum, i hope he is still on. Anyway, Mulindwa, there are so many recently born members on this forum, some were born during your days shortly after your departure from Nakasero SRB and from your trenches in Luwero, those you can fool all day long. The rest of us are sober and very well informed about our country's history and the turbulent days of your former boss the monster, Idi Amin. Kamugisha _____ From: mulin...@look.ca <mailto:mulin...@look.ca> To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> CC: uganda...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:uganda...@yahoogroups.com> ; ugandanet@kym.net <mailto:ugandanet@kym.net> Subject: {UAH} ACHOLI AND LANGI HASTILY ENROLLED WITH MINMAL TRAINING AND LITTLE SENSE OF DISCPLINE {Can we get a more independent source than this?} Geez !!!!!!!! Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 21:27:51 -0500 Nokrach Neramoi I was in Uganda during the entire war of removing Iddi Amin from power, and I can testify to the fact that Radio Uganda was announcing at a daily basis on what parts were a war zone and what were not. If you were not in Uganda then you missed them. On record I was one of the two civilians that was evacuated very last from Mpigi Post Office where I was held by Uganda Army to operate and maintain the communication system for them to be able to call the rest of the country. We were held by Uganda army and denied to move out till when they abandoned the location for it was very dangerous to remain in Mpigi. Mpigi was the location where all soldiers were heaped to get ready to go inside the war zone. My dear friend some of us saw exactly what happened in that war, from soldiers that shot themselves so that they get injured and fail to go to war to those that became mental issues. Kindly cut the crap of educating me on how Amin saved very many lives of Ugandans in that war. Or explain to me why we have no mass graves all way from Mutukula to Mpigi and the massive deaths only followed areas that were taken over by Acholis. I am going to post statements that were made by Ugandan women out of Luwero on what Acholis did to them, kindly post me what Ugandans filled that was done to them by Amin during the 1979 war. Let us kindly get the facts as recorded not by me but by international organizations. This is from Word press an organization with women international, and this is what Luwero women state on how Acholis treated them sir. Read it closely and respond with such reports out of Amin’s government. This is what Acholis did in my district sir. * Rape I was temporarily separated form my husband when we were fighting for the causeÖwe were at acked by the government soldiersÖ. We fled to the bushÖ six of them found me hidingÖpointed a gun to me ordering me to lie downÖ Al the six raped me for about three hoursÖ. I got torn everywhereÖdeveloped backacheÖI could not control urine even faecesÖ. Before I recovered I was gang raped again at a military check point by 15 armed soldiersÖmy fel ow male combatant was taken as a prisoner of warÖî. * Incest They forced me to have sex with my daughter ÖI refusedÖ. They ordered my sonÖ. For the fear of a cocked gun he complied Ö I was then forced to have sex with a hole they had dug in the floor using a knifeÖ They forced my private part in the hole several timesÖthe skin was total y destroyedÖ. It was impossible to fight someone who is armedÖ. This was al done in front of my wife, son and the daughterÖmy wife went mad to dateî. * Forced Marriage He took me way from my husbandÖ. I had a breast-feeding babyÖ. When the war intensified, he took me to his home as his wife. On the way we went on robbing people of their propertyÖ. He forced me to carry the gunÖ. He showed me how to use the gun to at ack our victimsÖ. Reaching his home, his wife poured boiling water on meÖ. I was hospitalized in Lacor hospital for one yearÖafter the liberation war I escaped and returned to my home areaÖî * Sexual Slavery ìI was hiding under the bed with my father. I was about 14yearsÖ A soldier pul ed me out and took me with him to the detach Öhe raped me for a ful day while other girls he had abducted were watchingÖwhen he was transferred he sold me to another soldier for one thousand shil ingsÖthis was to happen to me three timesîÖ. EM On the 49th Parallel Thé Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy" Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi "Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika machafuko" From: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> [mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nokrach Neramoi Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 8:53 PM To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com <mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: {UAH} RE: [UGANDACOM] ACHOLI AND LANGI HASTILY ENROLLED WITH MINMAL TRAINING AND LITTLE SENSE OF DISCPLINE {Can we get a more independent source than this?} Geez !!!!!!!! Mulindwa nust have lived in a different Uganda."Mulndwa do you mean that the crocodiles that got fat during Amin´s regime where not from eating people?Do you mean that the 500000 people who died during Amin´s regime was not true.Have you seen firing squads on the newspapers.Where did you get it that civilians where removed from war zones.Well my fried if you lived during Amin´s reign you would not make such stupid comments. On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 11:49 PM, Herrn Edward Mulindwa <mulin...@look.ca <mailto:mulin...@look.ca> > wrote: Matek How can starting a war get responsible for the government soldiers gang raping women? For some very unknown reason I have a problem getting that connection. And I fail to get the connection for when the 1979 war was started out of Mutukula, Iddi Amin moved all civilians out of the war zone, and he instructed all government trucks taking fighters into the war zone to come back with civilians. Every single news in the evening was listing what areas must not have civilians, and the areas that must start to prepare to be evacuated. Amin’s government decided to change all community centers that were built by the UPC government into reception centers that these people lived in, and they all survived. It is actually Amin’s instructions that civilians never belong to a war zone but soldiers, that we today have no single mass grave all way from Mutukula to Masaka coming forward, and any Ugandan that was murdered, died for Acholis got control of the area and started to murder people amass. Matek every woman that was pregnant was handed a priority one by Amin’s government to be driven towards Kampala where medical attention would have been provided. That was a war sir. And with difficulty I am trying but so hard to understand your reasoning that Acholis had a right to gang rape the women of Luwero because they never started the war but Museveni did. Kindly help me here understand. Matek I adore sex and I can use all tactics to get it, but are you saying that if a war breaks I have every right to grab every woman and gang rape her for it is a war and in a war it is only those that start it that get responsible for what woman’s vagina has been cut out by a bayonet? And I am just asking EM On the 49th Parallel Thé Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy" Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi "Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika machafuko" From: uganda...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:uganda...@yahoogroups.com> [mailto:uganda...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:uganda...@yahoogroups.com> ] Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 9:57 AM To: ugandacom; voice-of-uganda Subject: Re: [UGANDACOM] ACHOLI AND LANGI HASTILY ENROLLED WITH MINMAL TRAINING AND LITTLE SENSE OF DISCPLINE {Can we get a more independent source than this?} Geez !!!!!!!! Em: You can only blame those who started the war in luwero and justified it; the likes of Museveni and NRA .for all the atrocities committed in Luwero You start a war you bare the consequencies It is as simple as that. MK On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 2:55 AM, 'Herrn Edward Mulindwa' mulin...@look.ca <mailto:mulin...@look.ca> [UGANDACOM] <uganda...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:uganda...@yahoogroups.com> > wrote: In February 1981, shortly after the new Obote government took office, with Paulo Muwanga as vice president and minister of defense, a former Military Commission member, Yoweri Museveni, and his armed supporters declared themselves the National Resistance Army (NRA). Museveni vowed to overthrow Obote by means of a popular rebellion, and what became known as "the war in the bush" began. Several other underground groups also emerged to attempt to sabotage the new regime, but they were eventually crushed. Museveni, who had guerrilla war experience with the Front for the Liberation of Mozambique (Frente de Libertaçâo de Moçambique--Frelimo), campaigned in rural areas hostile to Obote’s government, especially central and western Buganda and the western regions of Ankole and Bunyoro. The Obote government’s four-year military effort to destroy its challengers resulted in vast areas of devastation and greater loss of life than during the eight years of Amin’s rule. UNLA’s many Acholi and Langi had been hastily enrolled with minimal training and little sense of discipline. Although they were survivors of Amin’s genocidal purges of northeast Uganda, in the 1980s they were armed and in uniform, conducting similar actions against Bantu-speaking Ugandans in the south, with whom they appeared to feel no empathy or even pity. In early 1983, to eliminate rural support for Museveni’s guerrillas the area of Luwero District, north of Kampala, was targeted for a massive population removal affecting almost 750,000 people. These artificially created refugees were packed into several internment camps subject to military control, which in reality meant military abuse. Civilians outside the camps, in what came to be known as the "Luwero Triangle," were presumed to be guerrillas or guerrilla sympathizers and were treated accordingly. The farms of this highly productive agricultural area were looted--roofs, doors, and even door frames were stolen by UNLA troops. Civilian loss of life was extensive, as evidenced some years later by piles of human skulls in bush clearings and alongside rural roads. The army also concentrated on the northwestern corner of Uganda, in what was then West Nile District. Bordering Sudan, West Nile had provided the ethnic base for much of Idi Amin’s earlier support and had enjoyed relative prosperity under his rule. Having born the brunt of Amin’s anti-Acholi massacres in previous years, Acholi soldiers avenged themselves on inhabitants of Amin’s home region, whom they blamed for their losses. In one famous incident in June 1981, Ugandan Army soldiers attacked a Catholic mission where local refugees had sought sanctuary. When the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) reported a subsequent massacre, the government expelled it from Uganda. Despite these activities, Obote’s government, unlike Amin’s regime, was sensitive to its international image and realized the importance of securing foreign aid for the nation’s economic recovery. Obote had sought and followed the advice of the International Monetary Fund, even though the austerity measures ran counter to his own ideology. He devalued the Uganda shilling by 100 percent, attempted to facilitate the export of cash crops, and postponed any plans he may once have entertained for reestablishing one-party rule. The continued sufferance of the DP, although much harried and abused by UPC stalwarts, became an important symbol to international donors. The government’s inability to eliminate Museveni and win the civil war, however, sapped its economic strength, and the occupation of a large part of the country by an army hostile to the Ugandans living there furthered discontent with the regime. Abductions by the police, as well as the detentions and disappearances so characteristic of the Amin period, recurred. In place of torture at the infamous State Research Bureau at Nakasero, victims met the same fate at so-called "Nile Mansions." Amnesty International, a human rights organization, issued a chilling report of routine torture of civilian detainees at military barracks scattered across southern Uganda. The overall death toll from 1981 to 1985 was estimated as high as 500,000. Obote, once seen by the donor community as the one man with the experience and will to restore Uganda’s fortunes, now appeared to be a liability to recovery. In this deteriorating military and economic situation, Obote subordinated other matters to a military victory over Museveni. North Korean military advisers were invited to take part against the NRA rebels in what was to be a final campaign that won neither British nor United States approval. But the army was warweary, and after the death of the highly capable General Oyite Ojok in a helicopter accident at the end of 1983, it began to split along ethnic lines. Acholi soldiers complained that they were given too much frontline action and too few rewards for their services. Obote delayed appointing a successor to Oyite Ojok for as long as possible. In the end, he appointed a Langi to the post and attempted to counter the objection of Acholi officers by spying on them, reviving his old paramilitary counterweight, the mostly Langi Special Force Units, and thus repeating some of the actions that led to his overthrow by Amin. As if determined to replay the January 1971 events, Obote once again left the capital after giving orders for the arrest of a leading Acholi commander, Brigadier (later Lieutenant General) Basilio Olara Okello, who mobilized troops and entered Kampala on July 27, 1985. Obote, together with a large entourage, fled the country for Zambia. This time, unlike the last, Obote allegedly took much of the national treasury with him. Sources: Source: Wikipedia, published under the GNU FDL. Retrieved [dat] EM On the 49th Parallel Thé Mulindwas Communication Group "With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy" Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi "Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika machafuko" -- This is a quote: "Even if Joseph Kony was killed, that would not necessarily be the end of the war in northern Uganda because Kony is no more than a ‘ spiritual’ leader of the LRA. This quick fix, arm-chair solution seemed to be from the Kampala-based ‘opinion leaders’ who only know the war through newspapers". " Until the legitimate grievances and the marginalization of northern Uganda’s communities are addressed, LRA fighters remain a possible vehicle for the expression of northerners’ frustrations". "Kony may never sign a peace agreement. Whether or not he signs, however, is less relevant to avoiding new conflict in northern Uganda than ending marginalization policies and fulfilling promises by the Ugandan government." __._,_.___ _____ Posted by: matek <matekop...@gmail.com <mailto:matekop...@gmail.com> > _____ <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/UGANDACOM/conversations/messages/65805%3b_ylc=X3oDMTJxbDdmYTdtBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3Nzk1ODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BG1zZ0lkAzY1ODA1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTQxOTI2MDYxNQ--?act=reply&messageNum=65805> Reply via web post • <mailto:matekop...@gmail.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BUGANDACOM%5D%20ACHOLI%20AND%20LANGI%20HASTILY%20ENROLLED%20WITH%20MINMAL%20TRAINING%20AND%20LITTLE%20SENSE%20OF%20DISCPLINE%20%7BCan%20we%20get%20a%20more%20independent%20source%20than%20this%3F%7D%20Geez%20%21%21%21%21%21%21%21%21> Reply to sender • <mailto:uganda...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Re%3A%20%5BUGANDACOM%5D%20ACHOLI%20AND%20LANGI%20HASTILY%20ENROLLED%20WITH%20MINMAL%20TRAINING%20AND%20LITTLE%20SENSE%20OF%20DISCPLINE%20%7BCan%20we%20get%20a%20more%20independent%20source%20than%20this%3F%7D%20Geez%20%21%21%21%21%21%21%21%21> Reply to group • <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/UGANDACOM/conversations/newtopic%3b_ylc=X3oDMTJldDdydmZkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3Nzk1ODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQxOTI2MDYxNQ--> Start a New Topic • <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/UGANDACOM/conversations/topics/65799%3b_ylc=X3oDMTM2bnRwdWU3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3Nzk1ODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BG1zZ0lkAzY1ODA1BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTQxOTI2MDYxNQR0cGNJZAM2NTc5OQ--> Messages in this topic (2) <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/UGANDACOM/info%3b_ylc=X3oDMTJlYW83MnFnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3Nzk1ODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTQxOTI2MDYxNQ--> Visit Your Group <https://groups.yahoo.com/neo%3b_ylc=X3oDMTJkZzU0Ymw2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzM3Nzk1ODYEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDA3NzA5BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxNDE5MjYwNjE1> • <https://info.yahoo.com/privacy/us/yahoo/groups/details.html> Privacy • <mailto:ugandacom-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe> Unsubscribe • <https://info.yahoo.com/legal/us/yahoo/utos/terms/> Terms of Use . __,_._,___ -- UAH forum is devoted to matters of interest to Ugandans. 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