Just to add
Joseph Kamugisha,
You have lied, lied and lied that the only reason you are responding to my
series is because of lies the series reports. If that is the case, Rev. You are
going to have to quit your job as come 2015 this is going to be your full time
job, responding to what you claim to be lies. The conversations in this series
provide uncompromising truth for the mind that is done with confusion, illusion
and roles such as yours. The main purpose of this series so that you know, is
to lay the foundation of truth-telling so that one particular tribe is
prevented in the future from constantly sowing seeds of discord and sending us
into exile.
To remind you Rev. in the ancient world, the worst possible punishment was
exile. It was worse than death because it meant banishment from the source of
order and meaning. Worst still, by being separated from participation in the
empire one was automatically cut off from the ruler and order he had
established-thus one was cut off from the gods as well. Exile was a physical
banishment. Perhaps this is one reason that Socrates chose hemlock rather than
exile. Why should we, in this day and age accept to be banished into exile
because Rev. Joseph Kamugisha does not want us to talk about atrocities
committed in Uganda by Acholi for decades but happy to accuse Amin's people for
the crime the committed? No one had denied Amin's people if you will,
committed crimes. Since we all acknowledge that yes, Amin's people committed
crimes in Uganda, by this acknowledgement are we by Joseph Kamugisha's
commandment prevented from point out others who did the same? Which Bible
teaches this kind of reasoning and logic Rev? I would love to put my hands on
it. Perhaps that will teach me not to talk about crimes committed by Acholi and
will instead joining you in your crusade against Amin's people.
Indeed “Who let the Dogs out?” should be your song this Christmas for trust
me, I have not even started yet.
EM
On the 49th Parallel
Thé Mulindwas Communication Group
"With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy"
Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi
"Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika
machafuko"
From: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
[mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Herrn Edward Mulindwa
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 8:24 AM
To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
Cc: uganda...@yahoogroups.com; ugandanet@kym.net
Subject: {UAH} ACHOLI AND LANGI HASTILY ENROLLED WITH MINMAL TRAINING AND
LITTLE SENSE OF DISCPLINE {Can we get a more independent source than this?}
Geez !!!!!!!!
Joseph Kamugisha
To be quite candid with you, I have no single problem with any Uganda soldier
that goes out of Uganda to loot any property and drive it into Uganda. Had you
fools been looting from outside and bringing into Uganda we would have done
very better than we are, but you so decided to come back to Uganda and help
Tanzanians pack everything we had and you handed it to them as you are
watching. That is the stupidity you own as Ugandans that I fail to fathom. Who
steals from his own house to hand to the outsider except Ugandans? You have
scraped Uganda naked for it is alright to hand our coffee to Rwanda for free,
it is alright to pump our power to Rwanda for free, it is alright to pump the
entire weapons Iddi Amin had to bought to Uganda including MIGs to Tanzania for
it is free. For God’s sakes you closed UCB and handed the commercial bank
service of our country to KCB a Kenyan company. And you are bleating how UA
soldiers looted out of Tanzania bringing home !!!!! What was your net firkin
loss as a Ugandan? Having blown my head off a God damn wall due to your
un-nationalism I have a problem if UA soldiers really raped women in Tanzania,
this is the first time it is coming across my eyes, I have never ever got such
reports. If it happened it was wrong.
But let me take another issue with the looting, many of Uganda Army soldiers
moved on with private lives, very few you will see that are still stuck into
Uganda politics. Many Alurs Banubbi Kakwa Madi and so on are living freely in
Uganda if they missed the Acholi butchers. They are a non-issue and if you see
those that want to be in politics as Hussein Amin, they are soliciting for
popular vote to be voted into power and create the change they need in their
regions. That is what intelligent people do. The problem we have with Acholi’s
is that they are stuck into politics for life. There is nothing an Acholi man
does in life than being in a uniform and carrying a gun, or being a politician.
Let me clarify that statement. When you look closely at the structures of
homes in Acholi land, they have not changed for the last century and half. A
simple thatched house with round mud walls, even though much of Uganda homes
have changed all over the place, the Acholi hut still refuses to change. Many
times we drove caskets of Majors or Captains or very high ranking people, and
you reach home to where he is going to be buried, and the casket fails to fit
into the hut. So even though he was a very high ranking soldier or Police
officer or politician, he did not take that moment to build a house at home.
But do you know why those huts have failed to change even into 2014? Because in
all tribes of Uganda, Acholi men are never responsible to build homes for their
families, it is a responsibility of the wives. Those huts are actually built by
Acholi women, they cut the grass, and put it on top, they mix the mud and make
the walls. An Acholi man is only responsible to make her pregnant as soon as
she is done with the building of the home.
They thus have a great amount of time being in politics and in the army because
home steads are solely ran by women. Now here is the problem, in as such, they
are always in Uganda politics from world war one to 2014, when they get a gun
they rape women. We simply cannot let that go ignored sir. And as this
discussion continues I will continue to kindly request your support so that we
stand together in finding a solution on how we can save Uganda women from these
goons. It is a job we all owe to our country, it is a job we all owe to our
society, it is a job we all owe to our wives and daughters, it is a job we owe
to our consciousness. To make Uganda women safe from Acholi’s with guns. And we
can achieve that by building a very comprehensive structure in Uganda that will
hold every rapist responsible for his action, and that must be the end result
of the Luwero commission. Uganda Army soldiers moved on now past 30 years, they
are not hurting anyone, Acholi’s are here today and are asking to be a part of
Uganda solution today. I have a problem working with them when many are
actually rapists but killers.
We need to realize that in 2014 Acholi’s are the very eminent danger to Uganda
women.
EM
On the 49th Parallel
Thé Mulindwas Communication Group
"With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy"
Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi
"Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika
machafuko"
From: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
[mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Kamugisha
Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 2014 12:19 AM
To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
Cc: uganda...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:uganda...@yahoogroups.com> ;
ugandanet@kym.net <mailto:ugandanet@kym.net>
Subject: RE: {UAH} ACHOLI AND LANGI HASTILY ENROLLED WITH MINMAL TRAINING AND
LITTLE SENSE OF DISCPLINE {Can we get a more independent source than this?}
Geez !!!!!!!!
Ebola Mulindwa: This thread is there to also show how Amin's soldiers raped,
looted and left hundreds dead, in and beyond Mutukula boarder on Tanzania. Do
not cover up what pinches you The most. Kamugisha
_____
From: mulin...@look.ca <mailto:mulin...@look.ca>
To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
CC: uganda...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:uganda...@yahoogroups.com> ;
ugandanet@kym.net <mailto:ugandanet@kym.net>
Subject: RE: {UAH} ACHOLI AND LANGI HASTILY ENROLLED WITH MINMAL TRAINING AND
LITTLE SENSE OF DISCPLINE {Can we get a more independent source than this?}
Geez !!!!!!!!
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 22:36:08 -0500
Joseph Kamugisha
This thread is about how non soldiers were saved by Iddi Amin out of that war,
and how Acholi’s simply raped but molested every woman during the Luwero war.
Kindly stick to the facts we are on.
Thank you.
EM
On the 49th Parallel
Thé Mulindwas Communication Group
"With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy"
Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi
"Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika
machafuko"
From: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
[mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Joseph Kamugisha
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 10:29 PM
To: UG @ Heart
Cc: Ugandan Discussion Forum; ugandanet@kym.net <mailto:ugandanet@kym.net>
Subject: RE: {UAH} ACHOLI AND LANGI HASTILY ENROLLED WITH MINMAL TRAINING AND
LITTLE SENSE OF DISCPLINE {Can we get a more independent source than this?}
Geez !!!!!!!!
And truly so, crazy Mulindwa, some of us were in Uganda too. Matter of fact, in
or aroud November 1978, when your former boss Iddi Amin Dada, first commanded
the invasion of Tanzania through Mutukula, his thugs came back from the mission
which was described as "Very successful operation" on the then Uganda
Television [UTV] and the Uganda Broadcasting Corporation [UBC]
We watched on TV Uganda army soldiers trailing by road and others riding on
open trucks showing off their loot from Tanzania, their miserable looking
looted properties included, iron sheets torn from some of the border buildings,
i understand there was a bank which was broken into and robed of the little
money they found there. Other thugs were shown carrying mattresses, some were
carrying chickens, goats and bicycles.
Some of our former broadcasters on UTV present on this forum can testify to
these facts. I remember reading from one of my best presenters of all time, Mr.
Wanzama-Piro, former broadcaster at UTV with one of my TV evening programs the
Four "W's" [WHO, WHERE, WHAT, WHEN] on this forum, i hope he is still on.
Anyway, Mulindwa, there are so many recently born members on this forum, some
were born during your days shortly after your departure from Nakasero SRB and
from your trenches in Luwero, those you can fool all day long. The rest of us
are sober and very well informed about our country's history and the turbulent
days of your former boss the monster, Idi Amin.
Kamugisha
_____
From: mulin...@look.ca <mailto:mulin...@look.ca>
To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
CC: uganda...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:uganda...@yahoogroups.com> ;
ugandanet@kym.net <mailto:ugandanet@kym.net>
Subject: {UAH} ACHOLI AND LANGI HASTILY ENROLLED WITH MINMAL TRAINING AND
LITTLE SENSE OF DISCPLINE {Can we get a more independent source than this?}
Geez !!!!!!!!
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 21:27:51 -0500
Nokrach Neramoi
I was in Uganda during the entire war of removing Iddi Amin from power, and I
can testify to the fact that Radio Uganda was announcing at a daily basis on
what parts were a war zone and what were not. If you were not in Uganda then
you missed them. On record I was one of the two civilians that was evacuated
very last from Mpigi Post Office where I was held by Uganda Army to operate and
maintain the communication system for them to be able to call the rest of the
country. We were held by Uganda army and denied to move out till when they
abandoned the location for it was very dangerous to remain in Mpigi. Mpigi was
the location where all soldiers were heaped to get ready to go inside the war
zone. My dear friend some of us saw exactly what happened in that war, from
soldiers that shot themselves so that they get injured and fail to go to war
to those that became mental issues. Kindly cut the crap of educating me on how
Amin saved very many lives of Ugandans in that war. Or explain to me why we
have no mass graves all way from Mutukula to Mpigi and the massive deaths only
followed areas that were taken over by Acholis.
I am going to post statements that were made by Ugandan women out of Luwero on
what Acholis did to them, kindly post me what Ugandans filled that was done to
them by Amin during the 1979 war. Let us kindly get the facts as recorded not
by me but by international organizations. This is from Word press an
organization with women international, and this is what Luwero women state on
how Acholis treated them sir. Read it closely and respond with such reports out
of Amin’s government. This is what Acholis did in my district sir.
* Rape
I was temporarily separated form my husband when we were fighting for the
causeÖwe were at acked by the government soldiersÖ. We fled to the bushÖ six of
them found me hidingÖpointed a gun to me ordering me to lie downÖ Al the six
raped me for about three hoursÖ. I got torn everywhereÖdeveloped backacheÖI
could not control urine even faecesÖ. Before I recovered I was gang raped again
at a
military check point by 15 armed soldiersÖmy fel ow male combatant was taken as
a
prisoner of warÖî.
* Incest
They forced me to have sex with my daughter ÖI refusedÖ. They ordered my sonÖ.
For the fear of a cocked gun he complied Ö I was then forced to have sex with a
hole
they had dug in the floor using a knifeÖ They forced my private part in the hole
several timesÖthe skin was total y destroyedÖ. It was impossible to fight
someone
who is armedÖ. This was al done in front of my wife, son and the daughterÖmy
wife
went mad to dateî.
* Forced Marriage
He took me way from my husbandÖ. I had a breast-feeding babyÖ. When the war
intensified, he took me to his home as his wife. On the way we went on robbing
people
of their propertyÖ. He forced me to carry the gunÖ. He showed me how to use the
gun to at ack our victimsÖ. Reaching his home, his wife poured boiling water on
meÖ. I was hospitalized in Lacor hospital for one yearÖafter the liberation war
I
escaped and returned to my home areaÖî
* Sexual Slavery
ìI was hiding under the bed with my father. I was about 14yearsÖ A soldier pul
ed
me out and took me with him to the detach Öhe raped me for a ful day while other
girls he had abducted were watchingÖwhen he was transferred he sold me to
another
soldier for one thousand shil ingsÖthis was to happen to me three timesîÖ.
EM
On the 49th Parallel
Thé Mulindwas Communication Group
"With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy"
Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi
"Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika
machafuko"
From: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
[mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Nokrach Neramoi
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 8:53 PM
To: ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com
<mailto:ugandans-at-he...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: {UAH} RE: [UGANDACOM] ACHOLI AND LANGI HASTILY ENROLLED WITH
MINMAL TRAINING AND LITTLE SENSE OF DISCPLINE {Can we get a more independent
source than this?} Geez !!!!!!!!
Mulindwa nust have lived in a different Uganda."Mulndwa do you mean that the
crocodiles that got fat during Amin´s regime where not from eating people?Do
you mean that the 500000 people who died during Amin´s regime was not true.Have
you seen firing squads on the newspapers.Where did you get it that civilians
where removed from war zones.Well my fried if you lived during Amin´s reign you
would not make such stupid comments.
On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 11:49 PM, Herrn Edward Mulindwa <mulin...@look.ca
<mailto:mulin...@look.ca> > wrote:
Matek
How can starting a war get responsible for the government soldiers gang raping
women? For some very unknown reason I have a problem getting that connection.
And I fail to get the connection for when the 1979 war was started out of
Mutukula, Iddi Amin moved all civilians out of the war zone, and he instructed
all government trucks taking fighters into the war zone to come back with
civilians. Every single news in the evening was listing what areas must not
have civilians, and the areas that must start to prepare to be evacuated.
Amin’s government decided to change all community centers that were built by
the UPC government into reception centers that these people lived in, and they
all survived. It is actually Amin’s instructions that civilians never belong to
a war zone but soldiers, that we today have no single mass grave all way from
Mutukula to Masaka coming forward, and any Ugandan that was murdered, died for
Acholis got control of the area and started to murder people amass. Matek every
woman that was pregnant was handed a priority one by Amin’s government to be
driven towards Kampala where medical attention would have been provided. That
was a war sir. And with difficulty I am trying but so hard to understand your
reasoning that Acholis had a right to gang rape the women of Luwero because
they never started the war but Museveni did. Kindly help me here understand.
Matek I adore sex and I can use all tactics to get it, but are you saying that
if a war breaks I have every right to grab every woman and gang rape her for it
is a war and in a war it is only those that start it that get responsible for
what woman’s vagina has been cut out by a bayonet?
And I am just asking
EM
On the 49th Parallel
Thé Mulindwas Communication Group
"With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy"
Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi
"Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika
machafuko"
From: uganda...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:uganda...@yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:uganda...@yahoogroups.com <mailto:uganda...@yahoogroups.com> ]
Sent: Monday, December 22, 2014 9:57 AM
To: ugandacom; voice-of-uganda
Subject: Re: [UGANDACOM] ACHOLI AND LANGI HASTILY ENROLLED WITH MINMAL TRAINING
AND LITTLE SENSE OF DISCPLINE {Can we get a more independent source than this?}
Geez !!!!!!!!
Em:
You can only blame those who started the war in luwero and justified it; the
likes of Museveni and NRA .for all the atrocities committed in Luwero
You start a war you bare the consequencies
It is as simple as that.
MK
On Mon, Dec 22, 2014 at 2:55 AM, 'Herrn Edward Mulindwa' mulin...@look.ca
<mailto:mulin...@look.ca> [UGANDACOM] <uganda...@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:uganda...@yahoogroups.com> > wrote:
In February 1981, shortly after the new Obote government took office, with
Paulo Muwanga as vice president and minister of defense, a former Military
Commission member, Yoweri Museveni, and his armed supporters declared
themselves the National Resistance Army (NRA). Museveni vowed to overthrow
Obote by means of a popular rebellion, and what became known as "the war in the
bush" began. Several other underground groups also emerged to attempt to
sabotage the new regime, but they were eventually crushed. Museveni, who had
guerrilla war experience with the Front for the Liberation of Mozambique
(Frente de Libertaçâo de Moçambique--Frelimo), campaigned in rural areas
hostile to Obote’s government, especially central and western Buganda and the
western regions of Ankole and Bunyoro.
The Obote government’s four-year military effort to destroy its challengers
resulted in vast areas of devastation and greater loss of life than during the
eight years of Amin’s rule. UNLA’s many Acholi and Langi had been hastily
enrolled with minimal training and little sense of discipline. Although they
were survivors of Amin’s genocidal purges of northeast Uganda, in the 1980s
they were armed and in uniform, conducting similar actions against
Bantu-speaking Ugandans in the south, with whom they appeared to feel no
empathy or even pity. In early 1983, to eliminate rural support for Museveni’s
guerrillas the area of Luwero District, north of Kampala, was targeted for a
massive population removal affecting almost 750,000 people. These artificially
created refugees were packed into several internment camps subject to military
control, which in reality meant military abuse. Civilians outside the camps, in
what came to be known as the "Luwero Triangle," were presumed to be guerrillas
or guerrilla sympathizers and were treated accordingly. The farms of this
highly productive agricultural area were looted--roofs, doors, and even door
frames were stolen by UNLA troops. Civilian loss of life was extensive, as
evidenced some years later by piles of human skulls in bush clearings and
alongside rural roads.
The army also concentrated on the northwestern corner of Uganda, in what was
then West Nile District. Bordering Sudan, West Nile had provided the ethnic
base for much of Idi Amin’s earlier support and had enjoyed relative prosperity
under his rule. Having born the brunt of Amin’s anti-Acholi massacres in
previous years, Acholi soldiers avenged themselves on inhabitants of Amin’s
home region, whom they blamed for their losses. In one famous incident in June
1981, Ugandan Army soldiers attacked a Catholic mission where local refugees
had sought sanctuary. When the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC)
reported a subsequent massacre, the government expelled it from Uganda.
Despite these activities, Obote’s government, unlike Amin’s regime, was
sensitive to its international image and realized the importance of securing
foreign aid for the nation’s economic recovery. Obote had sought and followed
the advice of the International Monetary Fund, even though the austerity
measures ran counter to his own ideology. He devalued the Uganda shilling by
100 percent, attempted to facilitate the export of cash crops, and postponed
any plans he may once have entertained for reestablishing one-party rule. The
continued sufferance of the DP, although much harried and abused by UPC
stalwarts, became an important symbol to international donors. The government’s
inability to eliminate Museveni and win the civil war, however, sapped its
economic strength, and the occupation of a large part of the country by an army
hostile to the Ugandans living there furthered discontent with the regime.
Abductions by the police, as well as the detentions and disappearances so
characteristic of the Amin period, recurred. In place of torture at the
infamous State Research Bureau at Nakasero, victims met the same fate at
so-called "Nile Mansions." Amnesty International, a human rights organization,
issued a chilling report of routine torture of civilian detainees at military
barracks scattered across southern Uganda. The overall death toll from 1981 to
1985 was estimated as high as 500,000. Obote, once seen by the donor community
as the one man with the experience and will to restore Uganda’s fortunes, now
appeared to be a liability to recovery.
In this deteriorating military and economic situation, Obote subordinated other
matters to a military victory over Museveni. North Korean military advisers
were invited to take part against the NRA rebels in what was to be a final
campaign that won neither British nor United States approval. But the army was
warweary, and after the death of the highly capable General Oyite Ojok in a
helicopter accident at the end of 1983, it began to split along ethnic lines.
Acholi soldiers complained that they were given too much frontline action and
too few rewards for their services. Obote delayed appointing a successor to
Oyite Ojok for as long as possible. In the end, he appointed a Langi to the
post and attempted to counter the objection of Acholi officers by spying on
them, reviving his old paramilitary counterweight, the mostly Langi Special
Force Units, and thus repeating some of the actions that led to his overthrow
by Amin. As if determined to replay the January 1971 events, Obote once again
left the capital after giving orders for the arrest of a leading Acholi
commander, Brigadier (later Lieutenant General) Basilio Olara Okello, who
mobilized troops and entered Kampala on July 27, 1985. Obote, together with a
large entourage, fled the country for Zambia. This time, unlike the last, Obote
allegedly took much of the national treasury with him.
Sources:
Source: Wikipedia, published under the GNU FDL. Retrieved [dat]
EM
On the 49th Parallel
Thé Mulindwas Communication Group
"With Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja and Dr. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda is in anarchy"
Kuungana Mulindwa Mawasiliano Kikundi
"Pamoja na Yoweri Museveni, Ssabassajja na Dk. Kiiza Besigye, Uganda ni katika
machafuko"
--
This is a quote:
"Even if Joseph Kony was killed, that would not necessarily be the end of the
war in northern Uganda because Kony is no more than a ‘ spiritual’ leader of
the LRA. This quick fix, arm-chair solution seemed to be from the Kampala-based
‘opinion leaders’ who only know the war through newspapers".
" Until the legitimate grievances and the marginalization of northern Uganda’s
communities are addressed, LRA fighters remain a possible vehicle for the
expression of northerners’ frustrations".
"Kony may never sign a peace agreement. Whether or not he signs, however, is
less relevant to avoiding new conflict in northern Uganda than ending
marginalization policies and fulfilling promises by the Ugandan government."
__._,_.___
_____
Posted by: matek <matekop...@gmail.com <mailto:matekop...@gmail.com> >
_____
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