A glyph is a glyph. BMP or non-
The GDI displays whatever glyph is provided to it. Perhaps demand for CJK Extension B support on M.E. (if any) will drive a revision to the software enabling non-BMP support. Since a glyph from a Plane Two font will display on M.E., even if bizarrely, it seems that providing non-BMP support here wouldn't effect the GDI. Something was turned off that perhaps shouldn't have been; or something which should have been turned on hasn't been, yet. Best regards, James Kass ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael (michka) Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "James Kass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Tex Texin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Unicoders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 7:45 PM Subject: Re: Unicode surrogates in browsers for the compelling demo > Well, > > I do not speak for MS and would not want *that* job anyway (especially for > issues like this one) but one thing I *know* is the first tester's axiom: > > "If you do not test it, its broken." > > I am just about positive that they did not test such a scenario. Remember > that Uniscribe still sits atop GDI and no matter how impressive it tries to > be, it cannot go beyond what GDI can do. I did see some very interesting > surropgate-type problems with the Win9x GDI, so I am not surprised they > would choose to not go down that road? > > As for IE vs. Win2000/WinXP, those are unfortunate bugs, and they should > definitetely be fixed (hopefully they will fix the Extension A bugs in IE, > too!). > > > MichKa > > Michael Kaplan > Trigeminal Software, Inc. > http://www.trigeminal.com/ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Kass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Michael (michka) Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Tex Texin" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Unicoders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 8:23 PM > Subject: Re: Unicode surrogates in browsers for the compelling demo > > > > If a Plane Two character can flicker on-and-off in MSIE 5.5 > > on Win M.E., then this OS and browser should be able to > > display non-BMP text without any problem. > > > > There is no reason for it not to work. Microsoft may not > > expect it to work and the flickering display may have been > > unintentional or an oversight. But the flickering display > > clearly shows that it could (and should) work. > > > > I don't expect it to work in Notepad on M.E., but I do expect > > it to work in MSIE. M.E. isn't Unicode based, but MSIE and > > Uniscribe handle complex script OpenType substitutions > > well. The level of sophistication required for such complex > > script handling is much, much greater than that of parsing > > a slightly modified character map format in a font. > > > > Since MSIE and Uniscribe are already correctly parsing that > > new character map format (else, how could the correct > > Plane Two character appear at all?), the browser and/or > > Uniscribe should be adjusted to permit non-BMP display > > on Win M.E. > > > > Surely, the browser's lack of ability in being able to handle > > UTF-8 for Plane One, while handling UTF-8 for Plane Two > > just fine (on W2K), is a bug that should be fixed. It also > > illustrates that non-BMP support is still rather new, still > > under testing, and still being developed. Hopefully, future > > updates of MSIE/Uniscribe will resolve these issues. > > > > Best regards, > > > > James Kass. > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Michael (michka) Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "James Kass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Tex Texin" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Unicoders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2001 2:46 PM > > Subject: Re: Unicode surrogates in browsers for the compelling demo > > > > > > > Microsoft does not say this will work and do not expect it to work. You > have > > > to have an OS that suppprts this sort of thing. :-) > > > > > > MichKa > > > > > > Michael Kaplan > > > Trigeminal Software, Inc. > > > http://www.trigeminal.com/u > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "James Kass" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: "Michael (michka) Kaplan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Tex Texin" > > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "Unicoders" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 7:48 PM > > > Subject: Re: Unicode surrogates in browsers for the compelling demo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Michael Kaplan wrote, > > > > > > > > > When I did have this working, I had the config as shown at the > following > > > > > site; further respondent sayeth naught: > > > > > > > > > > http://www.i18nwithvb.com/surrogate_ime/code_charts/ > > > > > > > > > > I was at that time running Win2000 SP2, IE 5.5, and a version of > WEFT. > > > > > > > > > > > > > For what it's worth, this page (all on one line): > > > > http://www.i18nwithvb.com/surrogate_ime/code_charts/05.asp?nofont > > > > > > > > ...has kind of a bizarre result in the MSIE 5.5 on Windows > > > > Millennium Edition. > > > > > > > > It doesn't display the Plane Two glyph *unless* it is being > > > > "selected" (as in for copy/paste operation). While it is being > > > > selected, the display for that single character flickers between > > > > the actual character and the dual null box characters. > > > > > > > > Depending upon when the mouse is released, the resulting > > > > display will either be the Plane Two character or two null boxes > > > > highlighted for selection. Can't make a screen shot of this > > > > because as soon as the screen capturing software is fired up, > > > > the highlighting disappears, and the display is back to two null > > > > boxes. This seems to work for only one character at a time. > > > > > > > > But, the amazing thing is that a non-BMP character displays in > > > > the browser on Win M.E. at all, even if briefly. > > > > > > > > (I fixed up the Win M.E. registry with the Scripts 42 setting and > > > > entered appropriate font names as string values just like the > > > > instructions for W2K.) > > > > > > > > This only happens with Plane Two, not Plane One. When tested with > > > > registry set to Code2001 on Etruscan, it looked like the browser was > > > > trying to use a fixed width font, just like it looked under W2K. > Could > > > > it be that the browser only tries to use a fixed width font for > non-BMP > > > > material? (The Plane Two font *is* fixed width, Code2001 isn't.) > > > > > > > > In MSIE 5.5 on Win M.E., the null boxes aren't from Code2001, even > > > > with the registry set to Code2001 for scripts 42, and the Latin font > > > > set to Code2001 in the browser, and even a font-face tag used in the > > > > HTML simultaneously. > > > > > > > > Based on a letter from Lars Marius Garshol in which the Opera 6.0 > > > > beta is mentioned as supporting non-BMP ranges, downloaded the > > > > free version for Windows M.E., but haven't been able to display > > > > any Plane One or Plane Two characters yet. Do note, however, that > > > > the Opera browser offers sophisticated display and font controls, > > > > and possibly I just haven't figured out the right combination. Or, > > > > it could be that only Opera for W2K-and-up supports non-BMP > > > > ranges. > > > > > > > > The charts made for Plane Two (links above) are encoded as UTF-8 > > > > shortest form, right? In other words, we shouldn't be trying NCRs > > > > for surrogate pairs or anything equally special? > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > > > > > James Kass. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
