A few items on the UTN that I didn't notice previously, and one for UCA.A. 2.3. Topic List, Order 3 It is not just ICU; CLDR/LDML sets the default for alternates to * non-ignorable*, which means that probably most implementations of UCA will be non-ignorable. This is out-of-the-box, so those implementations can reset the default globally, or for a given locale, or for a given tailoring of a locale, to *shifted.* * * *So I'd suggest changing:* * * *First, let's consider the default settings for the UCA implementation by the International Components for Unicode library [ICU <#ICU>]. That library does a full UCA multi-level collation. Its default settings differ from the defaults for UCA per se, in that ICU does not default to the "shifted" option for weighting. *That means that the so-called variable elements (e.g., punctuation and symbols) are given primary weights, instead of being shifted to a weighting significance at the fourth level. Given the ICU default settings, the list would order as follows. * * *to* * * *First, let's consider the default settings for the UCA implementation by the International Components for Unicode library [ICU <#ICU>]. That library does a full UCA multi-level collation, using the LDML locale tailorings. The default settings for LDML differ from the defaults for UCA per se, in that LDML defaults to the "non-ignorable" option, not "shifted". *Implementations can, however, reset the default globally, or for a given locale, or for a given tailoring of a locale, to *shifted. *That means that the so-called variable elements (e.g., punctuation and symbols) are given primary weights, instead of being shifted to a weighting significance at the fourth level. Given the ICU default settings for the root locale, the list would order as follows. * * * * B. I also noticed a significant typo in http://www.unicode.org/reports/tr10/proposed.html. * * *Sets alternate handling for variable weights, as described in Section 3.6.2,Variable Weighting <#Variable_Weighting>. Note that in [LDML <#LDML> ], blanked is not supported, and shifted is the default.*
it should be: Sets alternate handling for variable weights, as described in *Section 3.6.2,Variable Weighting <#Variable_Weighting>*. Note that in [LDML <#LDML> ], *blanked* is not supported, and *non-ignorable* is the default. Implementations of LDML can, however, reset the default globally, or for a given locale, or for a given tailoring of a locale, to *shifted.* * * [There wouldn't be a need to contrast the default for LDML if it were the same as UCA.] Mark *— Il meglio è l’inimico del bene —* 2010/7/30 Frédéric Grosshans <frederic.grossh...@m4x.org> > Le vendredi 30 juillet 2010 à 08:36 -0700, Kenneth Whistler a écrit : > > I suspect that many French users would be utterly unable to > > tell a "correct" ordering of all the modèle, modelé words > > from an "incorrect" one, or would frankly much care in practice, > > as long as they could find what they were looking for in the list. > > I agree with you on this, and I would like to see a real-life example > (in wikipedia or wiktionnary for example) where it should matters. > > However, there is an order which is "obviously incorrect" for a french > speaker, to the point that its sends the things to the place where they > are unfindable : the binary order, currently used by Wikipedia, where > a<e<z<è. For a french (or at least for me), separating e form é and è > is similar (i.e. as unintuitive) as separating e and E. > > This is a common problem for me (I often struggle to find a file with an > accent on my computer, because I tend to forget that z<é), and I think > an example obviously showing it would be nice. > > If you look at the list > http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Sp%C3%A9cial%3AToutes+les > +pages&from=Modele&to=Mod%C3%A8ne&namespace=0 > > you will see an order like : > > > ... > Modele atomique de Thomson > Modele bio-psycho-social > Modele christallerien > Modele cognitif > Modele conceptuel des traitements > ... > A very long interval, going through things like > Modification > ... > Modulation > .... > Module > ... > Modèle atomique de Thomson > Modèle binomial > Modèle bio-psycho-social > Modèle black-scholes > Modèle booléen > Modèle christallérien > Modèle climatique > Modèle cognitif > > > while my intuition would bring the modèle and modele together. I guess > it's the order 2.3 of your technical note (but I'm not sure). I think > the order 2.2 would still keep e<u<è, which remains strange and close to > unusable. > > Frédéric Grosshans > > PS: However, I agree that the words fleur de lys, fleur-de-lys, fleur de > lis are a particularly nice example to illustrate a topic on french ;-) > > >
