Hey guys. FYI: I'm really enjoying this thread. Seeing each of your positions and watching each of you support your arguments. There are so many tools out there, that it's great to hear the nuts-and-bolts from the guys in the trenches on some of these things.
Thanks. -Timothy On Feb 11, 2014, at 11:10 AM, Sean Thayne wrote: > You really should check out Apache Flex. I completely disagree that Apache > is a bad place for Flex. They have been killing it. The open source > community is thriving for flex. Downloads are going up significantly ever > month. And they have achieved top level project status for a year now. > Fastest project to achieve it. > > Second, there are great cross platform systems that use native UI. So your > most likely going to need to use a custom component set regardless. > Startling uses a UI framework called feathers. There are many 2D flat > business applications built on starling/feathers/air. The approach is very > similar to opengl. Only easier in my opinion. > > Another thing, Air supports native extensions. Allowing you to write in > objective c for ios and java. So any native functionality of UI elements > you want to use. You can. > > Also air lets you control the chrome of the app. If you want it full > screen, you can, but it not forced to run in full screen. That's just a > setting. > On Feb 11, 2014 9:49 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Sean, using the Adobe game engine or Starling for a game is a different >> animal. That's doing hardware acceleration, which definitely spanks >> Javascript. Yes, Adobe is still very serious about the gaming SDK, and they >> should. It's very good, you have a good point. If you're doing a game, that >> opens up a lot of other choices as well as AIR. Game engines take over the >> entire screen render. I was referring to non-gaming apps, where current OS >> component and system feature support are important. >> >> The watchESPN app is a perfect example of a hybrid's hot and cold history >> at best. Let me quote a 4 star review, "App suddenly crashing is not >> happening." And a 3 star review, "It still crashes fairly often and there >> are some UI glitches...My biggest question is why it's currently taking up >> almost 250MB of data." That's just in the latest 6 reviews on iOS. Google >> Play has a lot of the same issues, where each phone is either working >> great, or not working at all. I don't think ESPN has their mobile act >> together at all. They need to start over. My opinion. >> >> I'm not as excited about where Flex is with Apache. When Adobe was >> throwing serious money at development, yes. Considering Adobe's competition >> in the hybrid platform realm, the CES award was a given, at least for me. >> Currently, Adobe AIR is still the best, easily. Adobe pumped so much >> development into it, I don't see anyone coming close to that engineering >> effort for a few years at least. Last I checked, FlexJS was two guys >> part-time, but that was two years ago. All good people for sure. I just >> can't say it's the future of mobile. >> >> I'm a dedicated Adobe fan. I love what they are doing in HTML/CSS. I use >> Adobe tools every day for web dev and app graphics. Just not as my app >> tool. Unless you are gaming, which uses very little of the actual OS, you >> are very limited. You're going to spend a lot of time explaining what you >> can't do, or can't do reliably. Those original mixed sentiments are >> justified and correct. I can't recommend cross platform for non-gaming apps. >> >> -- Cole >> >> Quoting Sean Thayne <[email protected]>: >> >> Cole, your correct that adobe stopped supporting "flash player" on mobile. >>> But Air and Flash Player are very different. Adobe IS still supporting >>> Air. >>> They are also still adding awesome new features. That's one of the reasons >>> it won the CES award for best mobile framework this year. Adobe has >>> consistently held their stance that mobile AIR is the best cross platform >>> mobile system to date, and they work hard to continue to support the >>> latest. They are already one of the first frameworks to support apples new >>> x code 5+ mandate. >>> >>> Another thing, many awesome companies use Air. ESPN, Angry Birds, IHC, >>> etc, >>> etc. They all use the starling framework which has comparable speeds to >>> native. The kind of performance that JavaScript apps will never beat. >>> >>> Lastly the key framework "Adobe Flex" is now owned and maintained by >>> Apache. The key adobe inventor Alex Harui is still fulltime on flex. As >>> well as a bunch of awesome apache guys. It's very well supported at this >>> point. Their dev/user mailing lists are extremely active (100 emails each >>> per day). They are also hard at work on a new system called FlexJS that >>> will allow you to use common libraries between your Air and >>> HTML/JAVASCRIPT/CSS apps. They are using Google closures on this end. >>> Which >>> is a very awesome choice. >>> On Feb 11, 2014 1:15 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Everyone, >>>> >>>> I'm going to be a bit blunt, but I want to share my experience doing apps >>>> full-time for 7 years. >>>> >>>> As an Adobe User Group Manager, and now an Adobe Community Professional, >>>> I >>>> think I can speak on what Adobe is doing and recommending. Flash >>>> Professional is focused on producing HTML 5 content, especially Canvas. >>>> Which I think is smart. Flash is no longer focused on using AIR to >>>> produce >>>> native/hybrid apps since Adobe stopped supporting a Flash mobile plugin. >>>> I >>>> think it is wise to take the hint. Speaking for myself, I would not >>>> recommend AIR development for mobile. >>>> >>>> PhoneGap is a product that has Adobe?s focus. This is a previously open >>>> source project, and it is a hybrid, using HTML, CSS, and Javascript. >>>> Speaking for myself, it?s a crash-fest. I would not consider ANY hybrid >>>> solution. I?ve tried all the multi-platform frameworks and tools, from >>>> Appcelerator to Embarcadero. I?m done. No more. Here?s why you should go >>>> native, and native only for apps: >>>> >>>> 1) Wrapped-Browser rendering leaks memory. It will blow up on you. It?s a >>>> fact. It?s not up for dispute. Just ask the likes of Facebook and >>>> LinkedIn, >>>> the loudest supporters of this approach. Everyone that matters has >>>> abandoned it, code in the dumpster. They started over. >>>> >>>> 2) The biggest myth in the mobile world, by far, is that hybrids save >>>> time >>>> and money. They don?t! Hybrids fail, and they fail huge. Hybrid >>>> development >>>> is becoming synonymous with developers that just take your money and >>>> leave >>>> you with a bad app. Ouch. >>>> >>>> 3) OS support by these tools is late, incomplete, or completely missing. >>>> Xaramin is a great example of a tool that has all these checkmarks on >>>> their >>>> site of what they support, like video. But when you read the fine print, >>>> 95% of video properties and methods are NOT supported. If you are lucky, >>>> you?ll get a general subset of cross-platform-common-denominator >>>> support, >>>> a year late. You aren?t getting everything in Android and iOS, not even >>>> close. >>>> >>>> 4) Quality matters. Bad apps get deleted. This is exponentially true for >>>> iOS users. Like it or not, the native competition is plentiful and >>>> fierce. >>>> Do not bring a butter knife to a gunfight. Hybrid apps are notoriously >>>> slow, and leave a very large footprint. Even if your app is marginal, >>>> once >>>> the user is looking for bloated apps to delete to make more room, your >>>> hybrid app is sitting at the top of the size list. >>>> >>>> The reality of the hybrid cross-platform solution is you?ll be unstable, >>>> low-featured, old, slow, and bloated. There?s no free lunch. There?s no >>>> shortcut. Don?t pretend you can play with the big dogs in an app store. >>>> It?s mobile career suicide. If you want to develop apps, do it right, go >>>> native. >>>> >>>> If you want to do mobile, but you want to stick to HTML, there?s good >>>> news. Jump hard into responsive and the frameworks, and make a great >>>> mobile-enabled site. Adobe has awesome tools for that also. Angular.js is >>>> cool. There?s very good money in that work right now. That?s definitely >>>> doing it right. Very hipster. >>>> >>>> -- Cole Joplin >>>> >>>> Quoting thin <[email protected]>: >>>> >>>> Thanks Sean, I thought of you with this question for sure (and assumed >>>> you >>>> >>>>> would tout Air) :) In fact, I pitched Air to some people around here and >>>>> got some mixed sentiments with some of the complaints being bad/slow >>>>> updates/support and claims that Air is being abandoned by Adobe (which I >>>>> have not way of verifying). >>>>> >>>>> What about PhoneGap+Steroids (by AppGyver)? Anyone out there have any >>>>> pro/con experiences to share there? >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Sean Thayne <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> AIR, haha, but really, it won the 2013 mobile framework of the year at >>>>> >>>>>> CES >>>>>> last month. >>>>>> >>>>>> ~Sean >>>>>> >>>>>> <http://www.skyseek.com> >>>>>> class *Sean_Thayne* >>>>>> extends Developer { >>>>>> public $skype = "sthayne23"; >>>>>> public $gTalk = "[email protected]"; >>>>>> public $url = "www.skyseek.com"; >>>>>> } >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:27 PM, thin <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Heya all, >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This may be a little off topic, but I wanted to ask about peoples' >>>>>>> experiences with multi-platform mobile development and which tools to >>>>>>> praise or avoid, pros/cons of various tools, etc. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Everyone's combined experiences would be really awesome to hear about, >>>>>>> so >>>>>>> feel free to speak up about Titanium, PhoneGap, AppGyver, Sencha, >>>>>>> Rhomobile >>>>>>> and beyond! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> What I'm trying to do is to make a good pros/cons list of the most >>>>>>> common >>>>>>> and/or current and/or robust offerings out there. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks tons! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> UPHPU mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu >>>>>>> IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >>>>> UPHPU mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>>> http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu >>>>> IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > > _______________________________________________ > > UPHPU mailing list > [email protected] > http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu > IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net _______________________________________________ UPHPU mailing list [email protected] http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net
