I actually disagree with some of the things said here. I think a hybrid approach does make sense given the correct use case. Should you develop a game using a hybrid framework? Absolutely not. However, for certain productivity apps it can make a lot of sense.
I have the most experience with Appcelerator Titanium and am recognized as a titan (http://www.appcelerator.com/blog/2011/01/titanium-titan-program/) Using a framework such as Titanium, which doesn't run in a web view btw, is just like any other language. You have to spend a lot of time understanding best practices for usage of the platform. Sure, there are a lot of crappy hybrid apps out there just as there are with any language, but there are some good ones as well. -- gs On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:25 AM, thin <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm totally on board with Timothy here. Sean and Cole, thanks for the > conversation and by all means keep it going, I've reading every word! > > Everyone else, you're strangely quiet. Is that to say that there are no > opinions/experiences worth sharing in the "hybrid" (or other) spaces? I'm > really interested in actual experiences with some of the other tools > available as well. Conveniences and hiccups (or support holes) would be > very interesting to hear about. > > Thanks again! > > > > On Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Timothy Humphrey < > [email protected]> wrote: > > > Hey guys. > > > > FYI: I'm really enjoying this thread. Seeing each of your positions and > > watching each of you support your arguments. There are so many tools out > > there, that it's great to hear the nuts-and-bolts from the guys in the > > trenches on some of these things. > > > > Thanks. > > -Timothy > > > > On Feb 11, 2014, at 11:10 AM, Sean Thayne wrote: > > > > > You really should check out Apache Flex. I completely disagree that > > Apache > > > is a bad place for Flex. They have been killing it. The open source > > > community is thriving for flex. Downloads are going up significantly > ever > > > month. And they have achieved top level project status for a year now. > > > Fastest project to achieve it. > > > > > > Second, there are great cross platform systems that use native UI. So > > your > > > most likely going to need to use a custom component set regardless. > > > Startling uses a UI framework called feathers. There are many 2D flat > > > business applications built on starling/feathers/air. The approach is > > very > > > similar to opengl. Only easier in my opinion. > > > > > > Another thing, Air supports native extensions. Allowing you to write in > > > objective c for ios and java. So any native functionality of UI > elements > > > you want to use. You can. > > > > > > Also air lets you control the chrome of the app. If you want it full > > > screen, you can, but it not forced to run in full screen. That's just a > > > setting. > > > On Feb 11, 2014 9:49 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > > >> Sean, using the Adobe game engine or Starling for a game is a > different > > >> animal. That's doing hardware acceleration, which definitely spanks > > >> Javascript. Yes, Adobe is still very serious about the gaming SDK, and > > they > > >> should. It's very good, you have a good point. If you're doing a game, > > that > > >> opens up a lot of other choices as well as AIR. Game engines take over > > the > > >> entire screen render. I was referring to non-gaming apps, where > current > > OS > > >> component and system feature support are important. > > >> > > >> The watchESPN app is a perfect example of a hybrid's hot and cold > > history > > >> at best. Let me quote a 4 star review, "App suddenly crashing is not > > >> happening." And a 3 star review, "It still crashes fairly often and > > there > > >> are some UI glitches...My biggest question is why it's currently > taking > > up > > >> almost 250MB of data." That's just in the latest 6 reviews on iOS. > > Google > > >> Play has a lot of the same issues, where each phone is either working > > >> great, or not working at all. I don't think ESPN has their mobile act > > >> together at all. They need to start over. My opinion. > > >> > > >> I'm not as excited about where Flex is with Apache. When Adobe was > > >> throwing serious money at development, yes. Considering Adobe's > > competition > > >> in the hybrid platform realm, the CES award was a given, at least for > > me. > > >> Currently, Adobe AIR is still the best, easily. Adobe pumped so much > > >> development into it, I don't see anyone coming close to that > engineering > > >> effort for a few years at least. Last I checked, FlexJS was two guys > > >> part-time, but that was two years ago. All good people for sure. I > just > > >> can't say it's the future of mobile. > > >> > > >> I'm a dedicated Adobe fan. I love what they are doing in HTML/CSS. I > use > > >> Adobe tools every day for web dev and app graphics. Just not as my app > > >> tool. Unless you are gaming, which uses very little of the actual OS, > > you > > >> are very limited. You're going to spend a lot of time explaining what > > you > > >> can't do, or can't do reliably. Those original mixed sentiments are > > >> justified and correct. I can't recommend cross platform for non-gaming > > apps. > > >> > > >> -- Cole > > >> > > >> Quoting Sean Thayne <[email protected]>: > > >> > > >> Cole, your correct that adobe stopped supporting "flash player" on > > mobile. > > >>> But Air and Flash Player are very different. Adobe IS still > supporting > > >>> Air. > > >>> They are also still adding awesome new features. That's one of the > > reasons > > >>> it won the CES award for best mobile framework this year. Adobe has > > >>> consistently held their stance that mobile AIR is the best cross > > platform > > >>> mobile system to date, and they work hard to continue to support the > > >>> latest. They are already one of the first frameworks to support > apples > > new > > >>> x code 5+ mandate. > > >>> > > >>> Another thing, many awesome companies use Air. ESPN, Angry Birds, > IHC, > > >>> etc, > > >>> etc. They all use the starling framework which has comparable speeds > to > > >>> native. The kind of performance that JavaScript apps will never beat. > > >>> > > >>> Lastly the key framework "Adobe Flex" is now owned and maintained by > > >>> Apache. The key adobe inventor Alex Harui is still fulltime on flex. > As > > >>> well as a bunch of awesome apache guys. It's very well supported at > > this > > >>> point. Their dev/user mailing lists are extremely active (100 emails > > each > > >>> per day). They are also hard at work on a new system called FlexJS > that > > >>> will allow you to use common libraries between your Air and > > >>> HTML/JAVASCRIPT/CSS apps. They are using Google closures on this end. > > >>> Which > > >>> is a very awesome choice. > > >>> On Feb 11, 2014 1:15 AM, <[email protected]> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> Hi Everyone, > > >>>> > > >>>> I'm going to be a bit blunt, but I want to share my experience doing > > apps > > >>>> full-time for 7 years. > > >>>> > > >>>> As an Adobe User Group Manager, and now an Adobe Community > > Professional, > > >>>> I > > >>>> think I can speak on what Adobe is doing and recommending. Flash > > >>>> Professional is focused on producing HTML 5 content, especially > > Canvas. > > >>>> Which I think is smart. Flash is no longer focused on using AIR to > > >>>> produce > > >>>> native/hybrid apps since Adobe stopped supporting a Flash mobile > > plugin. > > >>>> I > > >>>> think it is wise to take the hint. Speaking for myself, I would not > > >>>> recommend AIR development for mobile. > > >>>> > > >>>> PhoneGap is a product that has Adobe?s focus. This is a previously > > open > > >>>> source project, and it is a hybrid, using HTML, CSS, and Javascript. > > >>>> Speaking for myself, it?s a crash-fest. I would not consider ANY > > hybrid > > >>>> solution. I?ve tried all the multi-platform frameworks and tools, > from > > >>>> Appcelerator to Embarcadero. I?m done. No more. Here?s why you > should > > go > > >>>> native, and native only for apps: > > >>>> > > >>>> 1) Wrapped-Browser rendering leaks memory. It will blow up on you. > > It?s a > > >>>> fact. It?s not up for dispute. Just ask the likes of Facebook and > > >>>> LinkedIn, > > >>>> the loudest supporters of this approach. Everyone that matters has > > >>>> abandoned it, code in the dumpster. They started over. > > >>>> > > >>>> 2) The biggest myth in the mobile world, by far, is that hybrids > save > > >>>> time > > >>>> and money. They don?t! Hybrids fail, and they fail huge. Hybrid > > >>>> development > > >>>> is becoming synonymous with developers that just take your money and > > >>>> leave > > >>>> you with a bad app. Ouch. > > >>>> > > >>>> 3) OS support by these tools is late, incomplete, or completely > > missing. > > >>>> Xaramin is a great example of a tool that has all these checkmarks > on > > >>>> their > > >>>> site of what they support, like video. But when you read the fine > > print, > > >>>> 95% of video properties and methods are NOT supported. If you are > > lucky, > > >>>> you?ll get a general subset of cross-platform-common-denominator > > >>>> support, > > >>>> a year late. You aren?t getting everything in Android and iOS, not > > even > > >>>> close. > > >>>> > > >>>> 4) Quality matters. Bad apps get deleted. This is exponentially true > > for > > >>>> iOS users. Like it or not, the native competition is plentiful and > > >>>> fierce. > > >>>> Do not bring a butter knife to a gunfight. Hybrid apps are > notoriously > > >>>> slow, and leave a very large footprint. Even if your app is > marginal, > > >>>> once > > >>>> the user is looking for bloated apps to delete to make more room, > your > > >>>> hybrid app is sitting at the top of the size list. > > >>>> > > >>>> The reality of the hybrid cross-platform solution is you?ll be > > unstable, > > >>>> low-featured, old, slow, and bloated. There?s no free lunch. There?s > > no > > >>>> shortcut. Don?t pretend you can play with the big dogs in an app > > store. > > >>>> It?s mobile career suicide. If you want to develop apps, do it > right, > > go > > >>>> native. > > >>>> > > >>>> If you want to do mobile, but you want to stick to HTML, there?s > good > > >>>> news. Jump hard into responsive and the frameworks, and make a great > > >>>> mobile-enabled site. Adobe has awesome tools for that also. > > Angular.js is > > >>>> cool. There?s very good money in that work right now. That?s > > definitely > > >>>> doing it right. Very hipster. > > >>>> > > >>>> -- Cole Joplin > > >>>> > > >>>> Quoting thin <[email protected]>: > > >>>> > > >>>> Thanks Sean, I thought of you with this question for sure (and > assumed > > >>>> you > > >>>> > > >>>>> would tout Air) :) In fact, I pitched Air to some people around > here > > and > > >>>>> got some mixed sentiments with some of the complaints being > bad/slow > > >>>>> updates/support and claims that Air is being abandoned by Adobe > > (which I > > >>>>> have not way of verifying). > > >>>>> > > >>>>> What about PhoneGap+Steroids (by AppGyver)? Anyone out there have > any > > >>>>> pro/con experiences to share there? > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:41 PM, Sean Thayne <[email protected]> > > wrote: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> AIR, haha, but really, it won the 2013 mobile framework of the year > > at > > >>>>> > > >>>>>> CES > > >>>>>> last month. > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> ~Sean > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> <http://www.skyseek.com> > > >>>>>> class *Sean_Thayne* > > >>>>>> extends Developer { > > >>>>>> public $skype = "sthayne23"; > > >>>>>> public $gTalk = "[email protected]"; > > >>>>>> public $url = "www.skyseek.com"; > > >>>>>> } > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> On Mon, Feb 10, 2014 at 1:27 PM, thin <[email protected]> > wrote: > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> Heya all, > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> This may be a little off topic, but I wanted to ask about > peoples' > > >>>>>>> experiences with multi-platform mobile development and which > tools > > to > > >>>>>>> praise or avoid, pros/cons of various tools, etc. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Everyone's combined experiences would be really awesome to hear > > about, > > >>>>>>> so > > >>>>>>> feel free to speak up about Titanium, PhoneGap, AppGyver, Sencha, > > >>>>>>> Rhomobile > > >>>>>>> and beyond! > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> What I'm trying to do is to make a good pros/cons list of the > most > > >>>>>>> common > > >>>>>>> and/or current and/or robust offerings out there. > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> Thanks tons! > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> UPHPU mailing list > > >>>>>>> [email protected] > > >>>>>>> http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu > > >>>>>>> IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> _______________________________________________ > > >>>>> > > >>>>> UPHPU mailing list > > >>>>> [email protected] > > >>>>> http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu > > >>>>> IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > > UPHPU mailing list > > > [email protected] > > > http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu > > > IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > UPHPU mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu > > IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net > > > > _______________________________________________ > > UPHPU mailing list > [email protected] > http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu > IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net > _______________________________________________ UPHPU mailing list [email protected] http://uphpu.org/mailman/listinfo/uphpu IRC: #uphpu on irc.freenode.net
