Thank you, all! If there are operational tasks about the ecosystem page(s), let me know (organizing the content etc, whatever).
--- Oytun Tez *M O T A W O R D* The World's Fastest Human Translation Platform. oy...@motaword.com — www.motaword.com On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 2:14 PM Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks for the update Robert! Looking forward to the prototype! > > On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 10:07 PM Robert Metzger <rmetz...@apache.org> > wrote: > >> Quick summary of our call: >> Daryl will soon start with a front end, build against a very simple >> mock-backend. >> Congxian will start implementing the Spring-based backend early April. >> >> As soon as the first prototype of the UI is ready, we'll share it here for >> feedback. >> >> On Thu, Mar 21, 2019 at 10:08 AM Robert Metzger <rmetz...@apache.org> >> wrote: >> >> > Okay, great. >> > >> > Congxian Qiu, Daryl and I have a kick-off call later today at 2pm CET, >> 9pm >> > China time about the design of the ecosystem page (see: >> > https://github.com/rmetzger/flink-community-tools/issues/4) >> > Please let me know if others want to join as well, I can add them to the >> > invite. >> > >> > On Wed, Mar 20, 2019 at 4:10 AM Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> > >> >> I agree. We can start with english-only and see how it goes. The >> comments >> >> and descriptions can always be multi-lingual but that is up to the >> package >> >> owners. >> >> >> >> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 6:07 PM Robert Metzger <rmetz...@apache.org> >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >>> Thanks. >> >>> >> >>> Do we actually want this page to be multi-language? >> >>> >> >>> I propose to make the website english-only, but maybe consider >> allowing >> >>> comments in different languages. >> >>> If we would make it multi-language, then we might have problems with >> >>> people submitting packages in non-english languages. >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2019 at 2:42 AM Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>>> Done. The writeup looks great! >> >>>> >> >>>> On Mon, Mar 18, 2019 at 9:09 PM Robert Metzger <rmetz...@apache.org> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>> >> >>>>> Nice, really good news on the INFRA front! >> >>>>> I think the hardware specs sound reasonable. And a periodic backup >> of >> >>>>> the website's database to Infra's backup solution sounds reasonable >> too. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Can you accept and review my proposal for the website? >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> On Sat, Mar 16, 2019 at 3:47 PM Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com> >> >>>>> wrote: >> >>>>> >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > I have a very capable and motivated frontend developer who would >> be >> >>>>>> > willing to implement what I've mocked in my proposal. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> That is awesome! >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> I created a Jira ticket[1] to Apache Infra and got the reply. It >> >>>>>> looks that >> >>>>>> Apache infra team could provide a decent VM. The last piece is how >> to >> >>>>>> ensure the data is persisted so we won't lose the project info / >> user >> >>>>>> feedbacks when the VM is down. If Apache infra does not provide a >> >>>>>> persistent storage for DB backup, we can always ask for multiple >> VMs >> >>>>>> and do >> >>>>>> the fault tolerance by ourselves. It seems we can almost say the >> >>>>>> hardware >> >>>>>> side is also ready. >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-18010 >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> On Fri, Mar 15, 2019 at 5:39 PM Robert Metzger < >> rmetz...@apache.org> >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >>>>>> > Thank you for reaching out to Infra and the ember client. >> >>>>>> > When I first saw the Ember repository, I thought it is the whole >> >>>>>> thing >> >>>>>> > (frontend and backend), but while testing it, I realized it is >> >>>>>> "only" the >> >>>>>> > frontend. I'm not sure if it makes sense to adjust the Ember >> >>>>>> observer >> >>>>>> > client, or just write a simple UI from scratch. >> >>>>>> > I have a very capable and motivated frontend developer who would >> be >> >>>>>> > willing to implement what I've mocked in my proposal. >> >>>>>> > In addition, I found somebody (Congxian Qiu) who seems to be >> eager >> >>>>>> to help >> >>>>>> > with this project for the backend: >> >>>>>> > https://github.com/rmetzger/flink-community-tools/issues/4 >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > For Infra: I made the same experience when asking for more GitHub >> >>>>>> > permissions for "flinkbot": They didn't respond on their mailing >> >>>>>> list, only >> >>>>>> > on Jira. >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> > On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 2:45 PM Becket Qin <becket....@gmail.com >> > >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> >> Thanks for writing up the specifications. >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> Regarding the website source code, Austin found a website[1] >> whose >> >>>>>> >> frontend code[2] is available publicly. It lacks some support >> (e.g >> >>>>>> login), >> >>>>>> >> but it is still a good starting point. One thing is that I did >> not >> >>>>>> find a >> >>>>>> >> License statement for that source code. I'll reach out to the >> >>>>>> author to see >> >>>>>> >> if they have any concern over our usage. >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> Apache Infra has not replied to my email regarding some details >> >>>>>> about the >> >>>>>> >> VM. I'll open an infra Jira ticket tomorrow if there is still no >> >>>>>> response. >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> Thanks, >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> [1] https://emberobserver.com/ >> >>>>>> >> [2] https://github.com/emberobserver/client >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >> On Thu, Mar 14, 2019 at 1:35 AM Robert Metzger < >> >>>>>> rmetz...@apache.org> >> >>>>>> >> wrote: >> >>>>>> >> >> >>>>>> >>> @Bowen: I agree. Confluent Hub looks nicer, but it is on their >> >>>>>> company >> >>>>>> >>> website. I guess the likelihood that they give out code from >> >>>>>> their company >> >>>>>> >>> website is fairly low. >> >>>>>> >>> @Nils: Beam's page is similar to our Ecosystem page, which >> we'll >> >>>>>> >>> reactivate as part of this PR: >> >>>>>> >>> https://github.com/apache/flink-web/pull/187 >> >>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> >>> Spark-packages.org did not respond to my request. >> >>>>>> >>> I will propose a short specification in Becket's initial >> document. >> >>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> >>> On Mon, Mar 11, 2019 at 11:38 AM Niels Basjes <ni...@basjes.nl >> > >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> >>>> Hi, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> The Beam project has something in this area that is simply a >> page >> >>>>>> >>>> within their documentation website: >> >>>>>> >>>> https://beam.apache.org/documentation/sdks/java-thirdparty/ >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> Niels Basjes >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> On Fri, Mar 8, 2019 at 11:39 PM Bowen Li <bowenl...@gmail.com >> > >> >>>>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >>>> > >> >>>>>> >>>> > Confluent hub for Kafka is another good example of this >> kind. I >> >>>>>> >>>> personally like it over the spark site. May worth checking it >> >>>>>> out with >> >>>>>> >>>> Kafka folks >> >>>>>> >>>> > >> >>>>>> >>>> > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 6:06 AM Becket Qin < >> >>>>>> becket....@gmail.com> >> >>>>>> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> Absolutely! Thanks for the pointer. I'll submit a PR to >> >>>>>> update the >> >>>>>> >>>> >> ecosystem page and the navigation. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> Thanks, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 8:47 PM Robert Metzger < >> >>>>>> rmetz...@apache.org> >> >>>>>> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > Okay. I will reach out to spark-packages.org and see if >> >>>>>> they are >> >>>>>> >>>> willing >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > to share. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > Do you want to raise a PR to update the ecosystem page >> >>>>>> (maybe sync >> >>>>>> >>>> with >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > the "Software Projects" listed here: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > >> >>>>>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/FLINK/Powered+by+Flink >> ) >> >>>>>> >>>> and >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > link it in the navigation? >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > Best, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > Robert >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 10:13 AM Becket Qin < >> >>>>>> becket....@gmail.com> >> >>>>>> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> Hi Robert, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> I think it at least worths checking if >> spark-packages.org >> >>>>>> owners >> >>>>>> >>>> are >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> willing to share. Thanks for volunteering to write the >> >>>>>> requirement >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> descriptions! In any case, that will be very helpful. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> Since a static page has almost no cost, and we will need >> >>>>>> it to >> >>>>>> >>>> redirect >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> to the dynamic site anyways, how about we first do that >> >>>>>> while >> >>>>>> >>>> working on >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> the dynamic website? >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> Thanks, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> On Thu, Mar 7, 2019 at 4:59 AM Ufuk Celebi < >> u...@apache.org >> >>>>>> > >> >>>>>> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> I like Shaoxuan's idea to keep this a static site >> first. >> >>>>>> We >> >>>>>> >>>> could then >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> iterate on this and make it a dynamic thing. Of course, >> >>>>>> if we >> >>>>>> >>>> have the >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> resources in the community to quickly start with a >> >>>>>> dynamic site, >> >>>>>> >>>> I'm >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> not apposed. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> – Ufuk >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 2:31 PM Robert Metzger < >> >>>>>> >>>> rmetz...@apache.org> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > Awesome! Thanks a lot for looking into this Becket! >> The >> >>>>>> VMs >> >>>>>> >>>> hosted by >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> Infra >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > look suitable. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > @Shaoxuan: There is actually already a static page. >> It >> >>>>>> used to >> >>>>>> >>>> be >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> linked, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > but has been removed from the navigation bar for some >> >>>>>> reason. >> >>>>>> >>>> This is >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> the >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > page: https://flink.apache.org/ecosystem.html >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > We could update the page and add it back to the >> >>>>>> navigation bar >> >>>>>> >>>> for the >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > coming weeks. What do you think? >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > I would actually like to push for a dynamic page >> right >> >>>>>> away. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > I know it's kind of a bold move, but how do you feel >> >>>>>> about >> >>>>>> >>>> sending the >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > owners of spark-packages.org a short note, if they >> are >> >>>>>> >>>> interested in >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > sharing the source? We could maintain the code >> together >> >>>>>> in a >> >>>>>> >>>> public >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> repo. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > If they are not interested in sharing, or we decide >> not >> >>>>>> to ask >> >>>>>> >>>> in the >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> first >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > place, I'm happy to write down a short description of >> >>>>>> the >> >>>>>> >>>> requirements, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > maybe some mockups. We could then see if we find >> >>>>>> somebody here >> >>>>>> >>>> in the >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > community who's willing to implement it. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > Given the number of people who are eager to >> contribute, >> >>>>>> I >> >>>>>> >>>> believe we >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> will >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > be able to find somebody pretty soon. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 3:49 AM Becket Qin < >> >>>>>> >>>> becket....@gmail.com> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > > Forgot to provide the link... >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > > [1] https://www.apache.org/dev/services.html#blogs >> >>>>>> (Apache >> >>>>>> >>>> infra >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> services) >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > > [2] https://www.apache.org/dev/freebsd-jails >> >>>>>> (FreeBSD Jail >> >>>>>> >>>> provided >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> by >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > > Apache Infra) >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 10:46 AM Becket Qin < >> >>>>>> >>>> becket....@gmail.com> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> Hi Robert, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> Thanks for the feedback. These are good points. We >> >>>>>> should >> >>>>>> >>>> absolutely >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> shoot for a dynamic website to support more >> >>>>>> interactions in >> >>>>>> >>>> the >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> community. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> There might be a few things to solve: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> 1. The website code itself. An open source >> solution >> >>>>>> would >> >>>>>> >>>> be great. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> TBH, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> I do not have much experience on building a >> website. >> >>>>>> It'll >> >>>>>> >>>> be great >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> if >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> someone could help comment on the solution here. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> 2. The hardware to host the website. Apache Infra >> >>>>>> provides >> >>>>>> >>>> a few >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> services[1] that Apache projects can leverage. I >> did >> >>>>>> not see >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> database >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> service, but maybe we can run a simple MySQL db in >> >>>>>> FreeBSD >> >>>>>> >>>> jail[2]. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> @Bowen & vino, thanks for the positive feedback! >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> @Shaoxuan Wang <wshaox...@gmail.com> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> Thanks for the suggestion. That sounds reasonable >> to >> >>>>>> me. We >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> probably need >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> a page in the Flink official site anyways, even >> just >> >>>>>> >>>> provide links >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> it to >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> the ecosystem website. So listing the connectors >> in >> >>>>>> that >> >>>>>> >>>> static >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> page seems >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> something we could start with while we are working >> >>>>>> on the >> >>>>>> >>>> dynamic >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> pages. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> Thanks, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 10:40 AM Shaoxuan Wang < >> >>>>>> >>>> wshaox...@gmail.com> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> wrote: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>> Hi Becket and Robert, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>> I like this idea! Let us roll this out with >> Flink >> >>>>>> >>>> connectors at >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> the >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>> first beginning. We can start with a static page, >> >>>>>> and >> >>>>>> >>>> upgrade it >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> when we >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>> find a better solution for dynamic one with rich >> >>>>>> functions. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>> Regards, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>> Shaoxuan >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>> On Wed, Mar 6, 2019 at 1:36 AM Robert Metzger < >> >>>>>> >>>> rmetz...@apache.org >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> Hey Becket, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> This is a great idea! >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> For this to be successful, we need to make sure >> >>>>>> the page >> >>>>>> >>>> is placed >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> prominently so that the people submitting >> >>>>>> something will >> >>>>>> >>>> get >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> attention for >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> their contributions. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> I think a dynamic site would probably be better, >> >>>>>> if we >> >>>>>> >>>> want >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> features >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> such as up and downvoting or comments. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> I would also like this to be hosted on Apache >> >>>>>> infra, and >> >>>>>> >>>> endorsed >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> by >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> the community. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> Does anybody here know any existing software >> that >> >>>>>> we >> >>>>>> >>>> could use? >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> The only think I was able to find is AUR: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> https://aur.archlinux.org/ >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> (which is a community packages site for Arch >> >>>>>> Linux. The >> >>>>>> >>>> source >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> code of this >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> portal is open source, but the layout and >> >>>>>> structure is >> >>>>>> >>>> not an >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> ideal fit for >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> our requirements) >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> Best, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> Robert >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> On Tue, Mar 5, 2019 at 12:03 PM Becket Qin < >> >>>>>> >>>> becket....@gmail.com> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> wrote: >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> Hi folks, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> I would like to start a discussion thread about >> >>>>>> creating >> >>>>>> >>>> a Flink >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> ecosystem website. The website aims to help >> >>>>>> contributors >> >>>>>> >>>> who >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> have developed >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> projects around Flink share their work with the >> >>>>>> >>>> community. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> Please see the following doc for more details. >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>> >> https://docs.google.com/document/d/12oCItoLbKrLGuwEUFcCfigezIR2hW3925j1hh3kGp4A/edit# >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> Thanks, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> Jiangjie (Becket) Qin >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> > >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> -- >> >>>>>> >>>> Best regards / Met vriendelijke groeten, >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>> >>>> Niels Basjes >> >>>>>> >>>> >> >>>>>> >>> >> >>>>>> >> >>>>> >> >
