Thank you~ Xintong Song
---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Xintong Song <tonysong...@gmail.com> Date: Fri, May 6, 2022 at 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Discuss] Creating an Apache Flink slack workspace To: private <priv...@flink.apache.org> Cc: Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org> Hi Chesnay, Correct me if I'm wrong, I don't find this is *repeatedly* discussed on the ML. The only discussions I find are [1] & [2], which are 4 years ago. On the other hand, I do find many users are asking questions about whether Slack should be supported [2][3][4]. Besides, I also find a recent discussion thread from ComDev [5], where alternative communication channels are being discussed. It seems to me ASF is quite open to having such additional channels and they have been worked well for many projects already. I see two reasons for brining this discussion again: 1. There are indeed many things that have change during the past 4 years. We have more contributors, including committers and PMC members, and even more users from various organizations and timezones. That also means more discussions and Q&As are happening. 2. The proposal here is different from the previous discussion. Instead of maintaining a channel for Flink in the ASF workspace, here we are proposing to create a dedicated Apache Flink slack workspace. And instead of *moving* the discussion to Slack, we are proposing to add a Slack Workspace as an addition to the ML. Below is your opinions that I found from your previous -1 [1]. IIUR, these are all about the using ASF Slack Workspace. If I overlooked anything, please let me know. > 1. According to INFRA-14292 < > https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/INFRA-14292> the ASF Slack isn't > run by the ASF. This alone puts this service into rather questionable > territory as it /looks/ like an official ASF service. If anyone can provide > information to the contrary, please do so. 2. We already discuss things on the mailing lists, JIRA and GitHub. All of > these are available to the public, whereas the slack channel requires an > @apache mail address, i.e. you have to be a committer. This minimizes the > target audience rather significantly. I would much rather prefer something > that is also available to contributors. I do agree this should be decided by the whole community. I'll forward this to dev@ and user@ ML. Thank you~ Xintong Song [1] https://lists.apache.org/thread/gxwv49ssq82g06dbhy339x6rdxtlcv3d [2] https://lists.apache.org/thread/kcym1sozkrtwxw1fjbnwk1nqrrlzolcc [3] https://lists.apache.org/thread/7rmd3ov6sv3wwhflp97n4czz25hvmqm6 [4] https://lists.apache.org/thread/n5y1kzv50bkkbl3ys494dglyxl45bmts [5] https://lists.apache.org/thread/fzwd3lj0x53hkq3od5ot0y719dn3kj1j On Fri, May 6, 2022 at 3:05 PM Chesnay Schepler <ches...@apache.org> wrote: > This has been repeatedly discussed on the ML over the years and was > rejected every time. > > I don't see that anything has changed that would invalidate the previously > raised arguments against it, so I'm still -1 on it. > > This is also not something the PMC should decide anyway, but the project > as a whole. > > On 06/05/2022 06:48, Jark Wu wrote: > > Thank Xintong, for starting this exciting topic. > > I think Slack would be an essential addition to the mailing list. > I have talked with some Flink users, and they are surprised > Flink doesn't have Slack yet, and they would love to use Slack. > We can also see a trend that new open-source communities > are using Slack as the community base camp. > > Slack is also helpful for brainstorming and asking people for opinions and > use cases. > I think Slack is not only another place for Q&A but also a connection to > the Flink users. > We can create more channels to make the community have more social > attributes, for example, > - Share ideas, projects, integrations, articles, and presentations > related to Flink in the #shows channel > - Flink releases, events in the #news channel > > Thus, I'm +1 to create an Apache Flink slack, and I can help set up the > Flink slack and maintain it. > > Best, > Jark > > On Fri, 6 May 2022 at 10:38, Xintong Song <tonysong...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I’d like to start a discussion on creating an Apache Flink slack >> workspace. >> >> ## Motivation >> Today many organizations choose to do real time communication through >> slack. IMHO, we, Flink, as a technique for real time computing, should >> embrace the more real time way for communication, especially for ad-hoc >> questions and interactions. With more and more contributors from different >> organizations joining this community, it would be good to provide a common >> channel for such real time communications. Therefore, I'd propose to create >> an Apache Flink slack workspace that is maintained by the Flink PMC. >> >> ## Benefits >> - Easier to reach out to people. Messages are less likely overlooked. >> - Realtime messages, voice / video calls, file transmissions that help >> improve the communication efficiency. >> - Finer-grained channels (e.g., flink-ml, flink-statefun, temporal >> discussion channels for specific topics, etc.). >> >> ## Relationship with the mailing lists >> I think the slack workspace should be an extension rather than a >> replacement of the mailing lists. Community members should still be able to >> follow what’s going on from solely the mailing lists. That means: >> a) All the decisions, conclusions and important opinions should be >> reflected back to the mailing lists. After all, according to the Apache >> Way, if it didn’t happen on a mailing list, it didn’t happen. >> b) We should encourage people to only ask ad hoc questions on slack. Long >> conversations (or ad hoc questions that grow long) should be posted on the >> mailing lists, and can be referenced on slack for a real time discussion. >> >> ## Responsiveness >> Using slack does not mean people being pinged need to be responsive. We >> are in an open-sourced community where all contributors are volunteers. >> Slack should be used to make communication easier only when all the peers >> are convenient. We should make it clear that people should not expect >> others to always be responsive. >> >> ## Archivability and searchability >> One of the shortcomings that Slack is often mentioned with is its lack of >> capability to archive conversations and to search among them. There are >> various tools that help address this problem[1]. As a first step, we may >> start with simply relying on reflecting things back to the mailing lists. >> IMHO, if everything important is properly reflected back to the mailing >> lists, we don’t really need the archivability and searchability. >> >> ## Other communities >> AFAIK, there are many popular open-source projects (Apache hosted or not) >> that have their own Slack workspace: AirFlow [2], IceBerg [3], HBase [4] >> etc. >> >> To name the Slack workspace with Apache Flink, we would need an official >> vote and approval from the PMC members. But before we get to that, I’d like >> to hear more about what you think. >> >> Thank you~ >> >> Xintong Song >> >> >> [1] http://apache-airflow.slack-archives.org >> [2] https://airflow.apache.org/community >> [3] https://iceberg.apache.org/community/#slack >> [4] https://hbase.apache.org/book.html#trouble.resources.slack >> > >
