"What is JSPWiki for?" This then is the question. If we kneel before our god(s), hands on heart, lovingly think of our grandmothers and ask ourselves “Can JSPWiki effectively compete in the content management market” , what's the honest answer? I think deep down in our souls it's an emphatic “no”.
I created a test Wordpress account last night in under five minutes. It looks great and you get free hosting. Wix offers even more fantastical creativity when you enrol. And xml editing wasn't needed. Foswiki is more powerful and polished, and used extensively. Pretty tough competition. But the market isn’t crowded at the bottom. It’s empty. This isn’t a daft strategy. It’s the quintessential definition of strategic marketing. An analogous example is the tool Vi. Vi is still cherished and extensively used, even today configuring state of the art IaaS deployments. Simple can be successful. I can see a need (which is where I came on board) for a plain and simple Wiki. I use mine as a single user web site where it acts as a content management system. Low system requirements, low bandwidth and most importantly, low configuration. Zero configuration to start. The details can be thrashed out later, but JSPWiki’s offering and place in the market must be resolved for success. I’ve posed this question before, but I’m not sure that there’s sufficient appetite for answering it sincerely. C'est la vie. On 5 October 2017 at 21:49, Jürgen Weber <juer...@jwi.de> wrote: > Jim, > > I also think the JSPWiki Authorization system is very good. The > container looks after authentication, and the policies decide what the > Container authenticated user is allowed too. > > Kudos to Andrew Jaquith (https://www.ecyrd.com/JSPWiki/wiki/AndrewJaquith) > > Juergen > > https://jspwiki-wiki.apache.org/Wiki.jsp?page= > JSPWikiContainerManagedAuthenticationInstallation > > 2017-10-05 10:39 GMT+02:00 Jim Willeke <j...@willeke.com>: > > Try not to think of it as infinite complexities but rather infinite > > Combinations. ;) > > > > And if you have a suggestion or a request for an improvement, I am sure > > folks would listen. > > > > I do agree many of the JSPWiki pages could use some refactoring. > > As with MOST open source projects the docs and code they are out of the > > beyond the realm of understanding for "common folk". > > > > Oh, and on "And how can you even dream of having anonymous users on an > > internet facing > > wiki?" > > Many are, even Wikipedia. > > > > And as far as "What is JSPWiki for?", I agree it is somewhat of a > > middle-road undefined product. > > > > - Not for the Enterprise as there is AFIK, no method to keep the sales > > dept separate from the engineering dept. (Well no reasonable tools to > make > > it happen) > > - Not for the Casual user as there is too much Flexibility. (or maybe > > too much Complexity). Perhaps most Casual users would be better off > with > > a "hosted" solution. (https://www.blogger.com/ or something) > > - Is not designed (or packaged) to be "dropped in" a SaaS like Google > > App Engine (or whatever AWS and Microsoft Hosting has to offer in that > > line.) > > - Perhaps it is best as a toolkit to be embedded within another > product > > offering? > > > > So I agree it is somewhat a "For anyone" which is NEVER the right answer > > for todays crowded market if you want to Succeed. > > > > If you would like some help, please provide some details on your > > configuration. > > Are you on Tomcat? > > Do you have Container Authentication turned on? > > > > Have you altered the WEB-INF/jspwiki.policy file? > > > > Any other details you think might be helpful. > > > > > > -- > > -jim > > Jim Willeke > > > > On Wed, Oct 4, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Paul Uszak <paul.us...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > >> I'm sorry Jim, I can't even remotely begin to agree with you. > >> > >> There are not *some* complexities. There are almost infinite > >> complexities. Some of this might be clear to a professional IT guru like > >> yourself, but (I will wager) that most cannot scratch even the surface. > >> The document you link to is 7000 words long, and includes enterprise > JAAS > >> configuration that is on (it states) by default. What? And implied > >> permissions? It reads like a matrix of potential security combinations. > >> > >> We don't even know what the relationship is between container users and > >> wiki users. Are they the same? And what then about the wiki groups & > >> container roles? Are they the same? I'm in the odd state of not being > >> able to log out of the wiki. If I log out and the page says logged out > >> G’day (what is that, Klingon?) I just hit back on the browser and I'm > back > >> in and able to edit! That's a trivial example, but illustrates the > point > >> well. > >> > >> And how can you even dream of having anonymous users on an internet > facing > >> wiki? As soon as you try to implement some form of primitive security > >> against the evil hordes out there, you run afoul of the *flexibility*. > I > >> think that you have to conclude that the whole security thing's a mess. > >> You might want to review the holistic scope of barriers to adoption. > The > >> reasons run deep and I've written on them previously, but I guess that > >> nothing is likely to improve. *What is JSPWiki for?* I'd dearly love > >> JSPWiki to succeed, but honestly I cannot see a way forward even though > I > >> keep desperately searching. Naff powers of persuasion I guess. > >> > >> Unfortunately at this moment I'm repurposing my wiki so there's a fierce > >> debate between heart and mind as to whether I should seek greener grass. > >> Is this too -ve? > >> > >> On 4 October 2017 at 14:01, Jim Willeke <j...@willeke.com> wrote: > >> > >> > While I somewhat agree that an implementation of using an externalized > >> > Access Control Model would be better in some respects, I do find that > the > >> > current implementation is well thought out and quite flexible for Wiki > >> > usage. > >> > > >> > Any Java Container implementation must simultaneously deal with file > >> > permissions, web container permissions, java.policy. > >> > > >> > WIKI-Groups and Page ACLs were deliberately meant to be managed > outside > >> of > >> > the web container or java.policy so that users can create > discretionary > >> > "roles" without getting system admins involved. This is an intentional > >> > feature, and a very powerful one which along with Page ACLs reduces > the > >> > barrier to adoption. > >> > We all know the difficulty of getting some administrator in some other > >> area > >> > of an organization to grant (or deny) access to a "thing". > >> > > >> > Note that the hierarchy for Access Control is: (I do not see this > >> > documented, it was in a user group a few years back) > >> > > >> > - "built-in" roles > >> > - container-managed roles > >> > - WIKI-Groups > >> > - WIKI-Profiles > >> > > >> > AFIK, any "Container" implementation deals with deal with file > >> permissions, > >> > "Container" permissions. > >> > > >> > There are some complexities that may documented but not so well for > those > >> > not familiar with the concepts. > >> > I think this page probably summarise most of the concepts: > >> > https://jspwiki-wiki.apache.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Wiki.Admin.Security > >> > > >> > Questions, Comments and Suggestions for improvements are always > welcome. > >> > > >> > -- > >> > -jim > >> > Jim Willeke > >> > > >> > On Tue, Oct 3, 2017 at 10:06 PM, Paul Uszak <paul.us...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> > > Well I still have trouble with the permissions /users after a > couple > >> of > >> > > years. All sorts of weird things happen. > >> > > > >> > > I've stated previously that I consider the security configuration > >> > > extremely complicated, bordering on unusable. You cannot have a > >> credible > >> > > product that uses (simultaneously) file permissions, web container > >> > > permissions, wiki policies and per page directives. I can't think > of > >> > > another application that has such complex security across so many > >> levels. > >> > > It's madness - do you hear me? Sheer madness :-) > >> > > > >> > > Seriously, I would suggest a total overhaul to simplify massively. > I'd > >> > > even consider writing some clearer documentation. It might reduce > the > >> > > number of set up issues that appear here. Although, with four > >> dimensional > >> > > security I suspect I'm not up to it. > >> > > > >> > > What was the question again..? > >> > > > >> > > It seems to me that if only the front page is publicly visible, it > >> > needn't > >> > > be within the wiki's context. Simply have a static front page at > one > >> > URI, > >> > > and have the private wiki at another. It also means you don't have > to > >> > > explain why you're being unfriendly as the wiki will be invisible > >> > > (unlinked). I have something similar myself. Or have I > misunderstood? > >> > > > >> > > On 3 October 2017 at 20:09, Jürgen Weber <juer...@jwi.de> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > > Hi, > >> > > > > >> > > > I followed Dave's blog entry at > >> > > > > >> > > > https://blog.davekoelmeyer.co.nz/2014/07/20/configuring-a- > >> > > > public-jspwiki-instance-for-private-use/ > >> > > > > >> > > > Has someone tried to keep the front page public? (i.e. to give a > >> > > > friendly reason for the rest of the pages being private) > >> > > > > >> > > > I tried to give all front facing pages [{ALLOW view ALL}] > >> > > > but still only the login prompt. > >> > > > > >> > > > Greetings, > >> > > > Juergen > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> >
