> Craig said: Tell me again how you come to the conclusion that Java is not a > popular platform for web app deployments? (To say nothing of the fact > that Microsoft might dispute the "PHP is king" rubric as well :-).
Craig, I assure you that I always hope Java success and I do think it popular for web app. The only thing I think I said Java was not doing well as PHP is that PHP becomes more popular in public sites. I mentioned all opensource and other public sites use PHP as evidence, and search engines showes php sites frequently. And as I said before, I agree with you that maybe broad criteria should be used. We just have to find a way how to get those private numbers. > > example, I found www.javaworld.com, the site runs "Apache/1.3.26, Unix, > > mod_gzip/1.3.19.1a , mod_perl/1.27". It likes cgi, isn't it? > > > > No ... that just means they have PERL installed on their installation > of the app server, with no indication what else is going on. That has > absolutely nothing to do with what technologies are actually used on > that site (which happens to have a combination, so how are you going > to count that? :-). If it uses Java in Apache, I may find mod_jk, or jsp, .do?... I found .shtml mostly. I agree with you here that it is difficult to find exacty what technologies it use. That is another reason why it is difficult to use some criteria determine the overall success as you said. Indeed it is hard to compare private sites. > Craig said: But I do know a few other numbers .... consider downloads of the J2EE > 1.4 implementation from Sun (or the 8.0 or later PE version of the app > server, but can be downloaded for free) which come with JSF. You need > seven digits (i.e. millions) to count these numbers ... yet Sun's > overall penetration in the app server space is relatively small. Is > Tomcat in the millions yet? (Answer: probably, but not as many :-). The facts you mentioned certainly supported Java is popular in web development. And I am glad to see these numbers. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Craig McClanahan" To: "Struts Users Mailing List" Subject: Re: Re: JSF is the beginning of the end of Struts !!! Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 21:46:14 -0700 > > On 7/26/05, John Henry Xu wrote: > > > Craig said:You can't properly measure a technology's overall success on > > a single > > > criteria like this. > > > > Craig, you are absolutely right. Maybe there is a better way to measure > > technologies based on broader criteria. The problem was I (or public) > > could not access proprietary networks as you said. I used search engines > > a lot recently. Many topics I searched come up sites in PHP and cgi. For > > example, I found www.javaworld.com, the site runs "Apache/1.3.26, Unix, > > mod_gzip/1.3.19.1a , mod_perl/1.27". It likes cgi, isn't it? > > > > No ... that just means they have PERL installed on their installation > of the app server, with no indication what else is going on. That has > absolutely nothing to do with what technologies are actually used on > that site (which happens to have a combination, so how are you going > to count that? :-). > > > Again, I agree with you that maybe many hidden sites were Java but we > > don't know. > > Then why are you trying to make any assumptions? You claim to be a > journalist ... do some research and justify your findings :-) > > Of course, you're going to find it very difficult to find many > meaningful metrics for open source projects. Let's consider one > commonly used one ... download counts. On an Apache project, there is > zero way to know what that count is, because good projects take > advantage of the Apache mirror system, and there is no central > accumulation of the overall stats (because the mirror sites consider > that information to be proprietary). I can tell you that, a couple of > years ago, before Struts started using the mirrors it would get about > 70k downloads per month ... nowdays, it gets 15k-20k from the Apache > site and a totally unknown number from the mirrors. So, has the total > gone up or down? Darned if I know. > > But I do know a few other numbers .... consider downloads of the J2EE > 1.4 implementation from Sun (or the 8.0 or later PE version of the app > server, but can be downloaded for free) which come with JSF. You need > seven digits (i.e. millions) to count these numbers ... yet Sun's > overall penetration in the app server space is relatively small. Is > Tomcat in the millions yet? (Answer: probably, but not as many :-). > > Tell me again how you come to the conclusion that Java is not a > popular platform for web app deployments? (To say nothing of the fact > that Microsoft might dispute the "PHP is king" rubric as well :-). > > > > > John Henry Xu > > > > Craig > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jack H. Xu Technology columnist and editor http://www.usanalyst.com http://www.getusjobs.com (The largest free job portal in North America) -- ___________________________________________________________ Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
