Both struts and jsf provide a means of handling form submissons, that seems pretty view controller to me. I dont get how everything's so black and white and/or chalk and cheese. Sure you define views in jsf, and you can mess with more than just the forms, but are the differences really as profound or their similarities really comparable to VB and C++? Sorry I dont get it. When coding jsf and struts struff I get the feeling that I'm being abstracted from the servlet spec.
What IDE vendors do is their affair, they've been trying to make coding brain dead for years and I doubt thats going to stop (note: I'm not saying that if someone uses an ide s/he is brain dead). But thats how JSF and struts are supported by IDE vendors not what they are in themselves, is a motorway made with tarmac or cars? Like i said before, C++ and VB like struts and jsf, sorry I'm trying to get it but I'm not there yet.. While I know there are differences between jsf and struts, I dont think they are as profound as you've stated. > Amen, brother. I wish Mark would see this. So do I, I guess I'll have to keep at it, and maybe one day I can become just like you :o) More seriously I'd really like what I'm missing clarifed as there's obviously something I haven't understood. Mark On 1/7/06, Dakota Jack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Amen, brother. I wish Mark would see this. > > > On 1/7/06, Martin Gainty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > let me assure you VB isnt the only course designed for tech support people > > wedged between auto-shop and recess > > yesterday I was prevented from implementing a script because the > individual > > didnt want to grant me permissions to the ** directory > > i.e. The LAST thing I want to do is to make this person PRODUCTIVE > > > > Yes I have learned that obfuscation and confusion are more than acceptable > > substitutes for generating working code > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark Lowe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "Struts Users Mailing List" <user@struts.apache.org> > > Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 6:44 AM > > Subject: Re: Advice for Struts expert wanting to try Shale? > > > > > > On 1/7/06, Dakota Jack <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > JSF is page centric rather than Action centric. There is no controller > as > > > you understand that in Struts with JSF. JSF is for a tool based, dumbed > > > down, approach: JSF is to Struts as Visual Basic is to C++. > > > > JSF is more page centric than struts, but they aren't chalk and > > cheese. The view controller is still in the backing bean and then > > mapping of outcome to jsp is done via xml configuration. How page or > > controller centric you want jsf to be is upto you, this is where the > > diffence between JSF being a spec and struts a framework start being > > more visible. > > > > If I was asking how to get started with jsf and shale I'd find your VB > > vs C++ statement confusing and not very helpful at all. > > > > Mark > > > > > > > > On 1/6/06, Rick Mann < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Thanks for the response, Craig. It's nice to get an answer from THE > > > > authority :-). Questions below... > > > > > > > > On Jan 6, 2006, at 5:16 PM, Craig McClanahan wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'd definitely ignore anything about prereleases of JSF 1.0 ... > > > > > that has > > > > > been out for nearly two years now. A good starting place for > > > > > general JSF > > > > > knowledge and information is <http://jsfcentral.com>. Kito does a > > > > > good job > > > > > of staying on top of the most recent articles and items of > > > > > interest. This, > > > > > by the way, is *exactly* the place to start before looking much at > > > > > Shale > > > > > itself -- Shale *srongly* presumes that you are familiar with JSF, > > > > > and what > > > > > it brings to the table all by itself, because it focuses on adding > > > > > value > > > > > around the edges. Without understanding those edges a little, it's > > > > > harder > > > > > to appreciate the benefits :-). > > > > > > > > Okay, I'll try to find a "hello world" JSF example. That might be > > > > enough for me to build on. > > > > > > > > A question comes up: what has happened to Tiles? Is it no longer a > > > > part of Struts? I'm still terribly unfamiliar with the new Struts > > > > website. > > > > > > > > Do I bother creating a nice Tiles hierarchy of layouts and tiles? Or > > > > is there some other way to get site L&F re-use? > > > > > > > > > Beyond the Shale web site[1], there's not a heck of a lot of stuff > > > > > yet. One > > > > > high level overview is the session I did at ApacheCon (reprised > > > > > from one > > > > > that David Geary and I did at JavaOne)[2] ... but the slides lose a > > > > > little > > > > > in the translation without the corresponding demo program, which is > > > > > not in a > > > > > shape that I'm quite ready to check in yet :-). > > > > > > > > Okay, I'll hold off worrying about Shale for now. Sounds like I can > > > > work it in easily enough when the time comes. > > > > > > > > > > > > Here's my big question: do I still think in terms of Struts Actions > > > > handling the business logic of my application (which they rarely do; > > > > they usually glue to the "real" biz code)? Or do I look to putting > > > > all that glue within JSF controllers? > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Rick > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its > back." > > > ~Dakota Jack~ > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > > > -- > > "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back." > ~Dakota Jack~ > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
