On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 06:13 am, Van-Couvering,EJ (pgr) wrote: > David, this is a great update, thanks so much. So, what we could do is: > > 1) recruit within our own networks (ie university IT departments, > anyone?) for talented programmers. My idea is, I can help this by > creating a poster in PDF that people can print up. This would instruct > them to visit the website, signup, and email -- Bruce maybe? About > getting involved. Others on the list can help by putting up the flyers > etc where they may be useful. > Most IT departments have projects like the Kent State Uni capstone project so they are worth approaching. I tried at my university but had no success, I think they wanted more 'commercial' type of application. Our project has plenty of new cool and trendy technology so that should be a selling point.
So go ahead and produce some posters. > 2)Documentation and style templates might be things that people on this > list could do. Perhaps we could find out a bit more about how to > contribute to these? I do not think is quite ready to start on this yet but hopefully in a few weeks we could start. You actually do not need to know much about xml to convert one of Bruce's style sheet to another format. The differences in the bibliographic table are usually just in the ordering of the fields, character format, and extra punctuation such as commas and brackets. It is much easier to modify an example than to create from scratch. > 3)Regarding the proposal to sun that should be in pretty soon now so > they can consider it after the release, would anyone on this list be > able to aid you in preparing such a proposal? Or is it something you > guys need to do? > > 4) Regarding money, it would be quite easy to get a donation if we could > come up with specific costs and possibly an assurance from Oo that if we > donate for the Bib project it will go to that. We could get online > donations. We might consider cost-per-click advertising on Google for > terms such as "open source bibliography" I have some experience in > search marketing and could handle that, I think. It would be a good way > to contribute. But we'd have to have the mechanism in place first. Yes this is well worth considering. I was concerned about the legal aspects of managing the money. And other option would be set up an arrangement by which we could put donors in contact with developers, and the donors pay the developers directly. > Really, this is a great opportunity. I'll get on the recruiting posters > now. > > Be well - sounds like you are putting a lot into this, and we really > appreciate it. Thanks, I get a fair bit of mail off the list supporting the project as well. So I will keep at it. > Elizabeth > > -----Original Message----- > From: David N. Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 11 February 2005 22:43 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [users-biblio] status (was Re: [users-biblio] kent state > capstone project?) > > On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 09:37 pm, Van-Couvering,EJ (pgr) wrote: > > Thanks for the update, Bruce, this is very interesting stuff. I think > > basically you said that apart from complaining that it's not here yet > > and how important it is, the folks on this list can't do anything to > > help. My complaint therefore follows below. But in addition, I think > > there must be a way that we can more constructively engage this > > community, and your thoughts on that would be welcome. > > As the project initiator, I start up the project because I saw the need, > not > because I had any particular skill in project software management. Also > I am > a poor programmer. I would love to get in and do some coding myself but > I am > so bad at it I get very bad tempered and my wife complains. > > I mention this to emphasis that Bruce and I would appreciate any advise > we can > get on how to more effectively run the project and more constructively > engage this and the wider community. > > > Signpost here: I'm not very technical - pretty average - and I work in > > the social sciences. I know nothing about BibTeX, DocBook, or the > > other > > > things that people have been mentioning. I hardly grasp what XML and > > XSLT are. I personally want a more or less out-of-the-box application > > that I can understand, and that doesn't require advanced configuration > > for basic use. That's why OoBib is so important - I can't switch to > > anything open without it. > > I have worked in IT operations and support roles and have done a bit of > high > level application and database design. But my skills are more in the > humanities. I have just complete a History MA thesis on the early Irish > sagas. > > > I have two questions: 1) what kind of resource support do we need? > > A quick list - > > Application designers > GUI Interface designers > Programers > Documentation writers > People to develop style templates > > > And > > 2) why do we have to get it from Sun? > > To enable the type of application we want for the bibliographic system > we need > to have changes made to the core Word Processor and User Interface code. > > Theoretically a volunteer could look at the existing code and make the > changes > required. In practice there is a huge hurdle in leaning how to do this > because of the complexity of the OpenOffice Application. There is a > manual > that explains the OpenOffice Application programming interface (API) and > it > has about 1500 pages. > > A volunteer would need to make a big commitment in time and energy and > brain > space to do this. If you were a young programmer setting out you would > probably want to learn the microsoft .NET API (a similar size) in > preference > because it enhances job prospects. Young people might not believe this > but > you can only learn a limited number of such complex systems in a > lifetime. > > Anyway no one has volunteered to undertake this task. This leaves the > SUN > people who designed built and understand current system. > > Our plan is to ask the SUN people to create a simple Bibliographic API > that > would allow our volunteer programmers then work from a very simple to > learn > and understand interface. This would also allow other people to build > alternative bibliographic support components to to build interfaces to > the > commercial products. > > The situation with Sun is looking reasonable - we have been told that > after > OOo version 2 is released in March-April the SUN people will be be able > to > "start some work" on the bibliographic system. We need to prepare (and > negotiate) a proposal for the first stage of work. > > > I thought the cool thing about > > open source projects was that you could mobilize volunteers, like > > ourselves but obviously with a few more skills, to write and test your > > code. > > It would be really cool. But how do we find the skilled volunteers ? The > > demand is greater than the supply. There are many Open Source projects > languishing because of lack of skilled volunteers and probably from > burnout > of the founders. > > For example - I still can not ditch MS from my house because there is > still no > linux OpenSource OCR program to run with my scanner that is even close > to > being as good as the ones you get for Windows with even the cheapest > scanner. > There are several OpenSource OCR projects but they are developing very > slowing. And I presume that this is due to lack of person-power. > > > And also, even if cold hard cash is necessary, aren't there other > > ways of fundraising? This is an important project, and I hate to > > think > > > we are at the mercy of corporate bureaucracy. > > Perhaps we need a grant application and fund raising working party. Are > there > any skilled grant hunters and writers out there ? > > Actually someone has raised the question of donating a small amount of > money > to the project. The easiest option is donating to OpenOffice and > requesting > that it be used for the bibliographic project. If the project was to > accept > money directly we would need to set up a some sort of foundation which > would > incur significant legal set up and ongoing costs. I have no skills in > this > area at all. There is also the problem of the international character of > the > project (I am in Australia). > > > Elizabeth > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Bruce D'Arcus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: 10 February 2005 17:57 > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: [users-biblio] status (was Re: [users-biblio] kent state > > capstone project?) > > > > On Feb 10, 2005, at 12:38 PM, Van-Couvering,EJ (pgr) wrote: > > > Oooh, open XML. Are you guys cool or what? > > > > Well, what can we say? ;-) > > > > > How can we help? > > > > Posting your ideas here (which I can forward to the people at Sun who > > make resource decisions) certainly can't hurt. > > > > The status of things is that we're slowing getting the pieces in > > place: > > 1) The OASIS Technical Committee that oversees the development of the > > file format (now called OpenDocument) has approved new citation coding > > which will make dramatically improved functionality (that goes beyond > > Endnote, in fact) possible. > > > > 2) No promises, but I will submit a proposal to the same TC that they > > replace the current bibliographic metadata coding with the MODS XML > > schema from the Library of Congress. Why? It's much richer, and it's > > standard (you can download MODS records from the Library of Congress > > catalog, using a web browser!). > > > > 3) I've been working on a side project that consists of this new XML > > style language -- called Citation Style Language (CSL) -- and XSLT > > code > > > that will format documents based on them. > > > > http://xbiblio.sourceforge.net/ > > > > I've not announced it yet, but should give a sense (more aimed at > > developers though). > > > > 4) We've got someone working on GUI design docs. > > > > The critical next step is that we need to get Sun to dedicate > > resources > > > to make it possible to bring all of the above into a finished > > application. Without that, nothing will happen. > > > > The good news is that we've gotten encouragement from them, and so are > > optimistic this will happen. > > > > We're trying to design things in ways that they not only improve free > > bibliographic software, but also open it up (though open standards, > > interfaces, etc.). > > > > Bruce > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
