Derek Hohls wrote:
... [snip] ...
But many still spoke up, saying that Cocoon was but one Framework among
many and so insufficient on its own to deliver Real Applications. And
so a great Babel of other languages and tools were taken up and other
approaches, based on the Old Ways of Templating Languages (up to now,
considered a heresy amongst the Cocoooners), were incorporated. Few now
understood the Great Cocoon Universe and many were confused. And the
Users wondered why Developers spent all their time learning these many
and arcane Ways and why applications took so long to deliver...
Hmm, as far as real applications go, see:
http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=Testimonials
I'm sure Ugo, as well as other people on the lists can relate some real-world success stories about using Cocoon.
OK - aside from the rather poor parallel to the original, I guess I am
beginning to be concerned about how much is seemingly required to get
going and __keep__ going with Cocoon-centred apps.
Getting up to speed with Flowscript took maybe a week for me. YMMV, but it's not all that complicated. Have you read http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=GettingStartedWithFlow ?
... [snip] ...
I am now at the point where I am faced with the possibility to design and deliver a large, complex, long-term, database application via a web front-end (as opposed to a traditional client-server front end, written in a RAD GUI, which is what I have done up to now). I believe that a web-based solution is the correct long-term approach, even if some of the technology seems a little clunky right now. To date I have been content with using XSP / ESQL for small, interactive DB apps, and I _had_ thought that I should now have to learn Cocoon Forms (or Woody) and Flowscript, xReporter and, possibly, Java Beans for logic - somewhat of a learning curve for me but also not impossible. However, recent discussion on this topic shows that some developers believe a whole slew of _other_ technologies (outside of Cocoon) need to be learnt and incorporated before one even starts with the design...
So, my question is:
*** Which solid, well-documented approaches, using primarily
Cocoon-based mechanisms, exist to create complex database applications? These approaches need to be at least documented in a detailed article
and, preferably, in a well-written tutorial/guide.
What exactly is you use case? Are you writing a traditional webapp, or do you need to do more of a data analysis type application? (Or neither?)
Ugo Cei has claimed that all you need is Flowscript, CForms, some sort of O/R mapping (Like hibernate or OJB), and the JXTemplateGenerator and you're set. I tend to agree with him, but I have no practical experience to back it up with :)
I agree that this needs to be much better documented than a bunch of loosely-related HOWTO's and Tutorials. Maybe a free book like Dive into Python is what we need. I have some ideas about how Flowscript can parallel UML system sequence diagrams that I would love to get a chance to expand on given the time.
** My observation is - if such does not exist, and I still want a web front-end, should I be abandoning Cocoon and going for some old-style, template-based approach, using other frameworks such as Struts, Hibernate, Velocity, PHP etc. etc. [and, of course, the same question applies here - is there something well-documented which lays a solid, detailed foundation/guide for taking a developer through all this?]
Of course you shouldn't abandon Cocoon if such an approach is not well-documented! ;) It just means there's an opportunity for someone to blaze a trail into uncharted territory.
* My last thought is - if there is no well-explained answer to either of the above, does this mean we are on the cutting edge when it comes to this type of work... because then I will at least know where I stand and can, hopefully, decide accordingly!
The fact that I've heard Struts developers speaking of pulling out pieces of Cocoon for their own use seems to indicate that we are on the bleeding edge. It's tough, but it's also really fun :)
Regards, Tony
--------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
