I'm really floored that this discussion is even happening. Here is why: If people are build their core infrastructure around Maven to the point where they feel like they should give the project developers a hard time due to something as simple as documentation, don't you think then that it's time to contribute? If you are that upset about it, then you obviously like it. Therefore, give back to the community and do something productive with your time rather than complaining. Complaining won't give the project contributors more time in their day to write documentation, it will just simply make them feel unappreciated. I was always told that you can't complain about something unless you have a better idea. If you think there should be better documentation, help them out rather than hassle them.
I'm managing a full enterprise application with Maven 2, with MANY subprojects (right about 20 or so), all of them have dependencies on each other. I'm also managing our repository, handling releases and deployments from Maven 2. I have portlet maven 2 projects in my build, core libraries (DAO), third party integration libraries, servicemix services and external web applications (that get loaded externally into the portlet because they can't be portlets themselves. And with all that I have to say that I have not had one time where Maven 2 hasn't provided me a way to get done what I needed to in a complicated build system and quickly. If you like ant, then the antrun plugin is your best friend. Just tell it when to run and then that's it. If I had to do all this in ant, it would have taken me way longer to create and manage. Even with managing all of this by myself, I find PLENTY of time to code and make improvements to the software. I think ant builds are way over complicated. I've seen ant builds that are just a complete mess because there is no structure to it. Every Maven project that I've come across (open source projects I've downloaded) have been very easy for me to get up and running with. The ant based ones I downloaded make me cringe and I don't even want to touch them. They are very hard to follow and I can't stand build.xml files that import other build.xml files. Yes some of the documentation is lacking, but you have to realize this is a really good project for free and I rarely have ever come across any problems with due to bugs. I can stand up a new project in our build in a couple minutes and instantly have a new component and ready to go. I think it takes more planning to how you are going to organize your code and projects so that dependencies are correct than they are that Maven 2 is just too difficult. I think maybe people could be feeling lost due to not being sure of the best practices, but no one is able to do everything perfectly the first time. I've never had problems finding information on what I've needed in places other than the Maven 2 site, and there is no shame in people having to look elsewhere. I'd rather a stable product with less documentation than an unstable product with documentation (why do I want to learn how to use something that doesn't work?). I've found plugins that I thought were hard to use, so I just use the ant version of them which is cake to plugin. I applaud the Maven team and am thankful for the time they've put into a product that has saved me so much time. Also, Maven is way easier to follow with a good tool. Just like code that you are trying to understand is very hard to follow without a tool. The Maven 2 netbeans plugin makes this all so easy to use. On 9/24/07, Michael McCallum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I should also add that that does "not" include supporting 3rd party > plugins... > and often getting the source for them can be useful... i have my own > versions > of mojo hibernate, xslt among a few others while waiting for bug fixes... > > thats like saying that micrsoft is responsible for the documentation of > the > drivers for my one-touch maxtor usb drive... just because i can't get the > one > touch button going on the maxtor does not make windows hard... > > On Monday 24 September 2007 23:23, Rodrigo Madera wrote: > > Denis, > > > > I get what you mean now and I agree... > > I have spent hours with Maven debugging and I know what you feel. > > > > It's been less than five hours since I had to download the source code > of a > > plugin to see what was going on inside of it... and got no results. > > Fortunately, knowledgeable people writing on these lists helped me out > and > > made me continue my journey. > > > > In the corporate world, these hold backs are a serious risk to > > profitability. > > > > I just hope that Maven plugins get better documentation. I have nothing > to > > complain on Maven's own, but plugin writers forget that other people > > haven't seen the source code of their plugin (not to say that everyone > > would make much sense of it). > > > > Maybe one day... > > > > Regards, > > Rodrigo > > > > On 9/24/07, Gisbert Amm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Michael McCallum wrote: > > > > with a few subtle exceptions related to bugs that are fixed in > > > > 2.0.7every question i've been asked in regard to using maven2 has > been > > > > found in the documentation in under 5 minutes > > > > > > That might be the case for the questions you came across. The mere > > > traffic on this list proves that there are indeed loads of questions > the > > > documentation doesn't answer. Also this kind of thread about how > > > improvable the documentation is occurs frequently on this list. The > last > > > big attempt to make the docs better has AFAIK been this one: > > > > > > > http://www.nabble.com/Maven-2.x-documentation-tf382504s177.html#a1055690 > > > > > > Possibly that sort of campaign should be done on a regular base or, > even > > > better, Maven should have a technical writer who cares about > > > documentation issues. I'm aware of the fact that Maven is a open > source > > > project, however, there are businesses built around it (among other > > > tools) that might have an interest in better docs and less rant on the > > > mailing list. > > > > > > Just my 2 cents (I'm no native English speaker and therefore > > > unfortunately can't really help with this kind of task). > > > > > > -Gisbert > > > > > > -- > > > Gisbert Amm > > > Softwareentwickler Infrastruktur > > > Telefon: (0721) 91374 - 4224 > > > Telefax: (0721) 91374 - 2740 > > > E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Internet: www.1und1.de > > > > > > 1&1 Internet AG > > > Elgendorfer Strasse 57 > > > 56410 Montabaur > > > > > > Amtsgericht Montabaur HRB 6484 > > > > > > Vorstand: Ralph Dommermuth, Matthias Ehrlich, Andreas Gauger > > > (Vorsitzender), Matthias Greve, Henning Ahlert, Norbert Lang, Achim > > > Weiss, Robert Hoffmann, > > > Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Michael Scheeren > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- > Michael McCallum > Enterprise Engineer > mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
