Sorry for my hasty and not well formulated rant. I was just thinking about the announcment of the Rails-team to switch to Coffeescript and what an impact that has on developers and existing apps.
There is always that compromise between flexibility and high-level tools but as the server side of Tapestry focusses so much on flexibilty/modularity i think it would make sense to follow that route also for the browser side. All this highly sofisticated tools (eg: sass, activerecord, hibernate, ...) cover maybe 90% of the use cases but become a major road block if they cannot easily be circumvented for the other 10%. Cheers, Andi. On Dec 8, 2011, at 2:13 , Chris Collins wrote: > Is prototype a good comparison here? It seems that both the tools mentions > here somewhat become an extension to the template engine "server side" part > of the T5 equation. > > After quickly playing with Tapestry-jquery it wasn't a case of "getting rid > of" prototype, but adding safely jquery. I certainly want to use javascript > libraries that use both prototype and jquery. I can imagine that one day > there maybe extensions for tapestry that incorporate not only these competing > js libraries but potentially leverage competing css macro languages like less > and sass. I guess I personally wouldn't care too much if it was one or the > other but it certainly would be nice if as a component of tapestry you could > perhaps have them as components that can co-exist in their own namespace. > > 1 1/2 cents worth. > > C > On Dec 7, 2011, at 4:57 PM, Andreas Fink wrote: > >> Please do not include this kind of technologies in the core. >> It took us long enough to get rid of prototype.js. >> Sure, it can be overridden but why not just offer it as part of an external >> CoolKidsJavascriptStack. >> >> Just my 2c. >> Andi. >> >> On Dec 8, 2011, at 1:15 , Howard Lewis Ship wrote: >> >>> Less or SCSS are both promising, but I'd love to see it integrated >>> into tapestry-core so that it could be used for Tapestry's default >>> stylesheet. >>> >>> On Wed, Dec 7, 2011 at 3:32 PM, Greg Pagendam-Turner >>> <g...@liftyourgame.com> wrote: >>>> Hey Howard what about less? >>>> >>>> >>>> On 08/12/11 04:49, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: >>>>> >>>>> One thing we need to do is support SASS (http://sass-lang.com/) so >>>>> that we can code concise& configurable SASS stylesheets and let >>>>> >>>>> Tapestry expand them into ugly, redundant CSS for the client web >>>>> browser. >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 6:59 PM, Chris Collins<chris...@me.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Makes sense. Working in Java for too long has made me soft. I need to >>>>>> read some c code to repent for my sins ;-} >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks Bob. >>>>>> >>>>>> C >>>>>> On Dec 6, 2011, at 6:41 PM, Bob Harner wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Rather than having separate IE-only style sheets, a technique I prefer >>>>>>> is to use IE conditional comments to add an additional div around the >>>>>>> body in my layout.tml, like this: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> <body> >>>>>>> <!--[if lt IE 9]> >>>>>>> <div class="ie-old"> >>>>>>> <![endif]--> >>>>>>> .... >>>>>>> <!--[if lt IE 9]> >>>>>>> </div> >>>>>>> <![endif]--> >>>>>>> </body> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Once that's done, then it becomes trivially easy to add all sorts of >>>>>>> IE-specific CSS rules in your app's main (or only) style sheet file: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> DIV.menu { >>>>>>> /* CSS rules for most browsers go here */ >>>>>>> } >>>>>>> DIV.ie-old DIV.menu { >>>>>>> /* some IE-specific rules go here */ >>>>>>> } >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hope this helps... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 6, 2011 at 12:10 PM, Chris Collins<chris...@me.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks Peter, makes total sense. I am so happy that css3 helped >>>>>>>> standardize cross browser support :-} >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So I probably would want to detect a non HTML5 browser such as earlier >>>>>>>> IE's with something that would throw in to the css another technique >>>>>>>> such as >>>>>>>> using a gradient filled image file (in this example)? I don't think I >>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>> want to throw in the technique of last resort because in the gradient >>>>>>>> image >>>>>>>> case it would compete with the html5 technique right? For the >>>>>>>> conditional >>>>>>>> method there is a technique proposed in: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://tapestry.apache.org/css.html >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Of course I am actually not literally talking about gradient fills I am >>>>>>>> talking about the general new vs old vs cross browser css challenge. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This client side commenting conditional logic seems to be only for IE. >>>>>>>> Would that be correct? I am guessing from a browser laggard >>>>>>>> perspective the >>>>>>>> only older browsers people would care about would be IE in general? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sorry for all the novice questions, by day I normally do non ui data >>>>>>>> crunching like engineering :-} >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Best >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> C >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Dec 5, 2011, at 11:23 PM, Peter Stavrinides wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi Chris, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So when it comes to css3 is it really so ugly? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you really want an answer to that, unfortunately yes... and no its >>>>>>>>> not just gradients. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> So say I was trying to add browser specific css to my layout >>>>>>>>>> component what would people suggest as the best strategy? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Browser detection is pretty awful, as its a moving target and not >>>>>>>>> perfectly accurate, but granted in some cases a necessary evil... >>>>>>>>> avoid it >>>>>>>>> if you can. Its not uncommon to simply specify all the styles for the >>>>>>>>> various browsers because those that are not understood will simply be >>>>>>>>> ignored... be sure though that they are not understood or you might >>>>>>>>> encounter a nasty surprise or two. In your example there should be no >>>>>>>>> need >>>>>>>>> for detection. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>>>> Peter >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: "Chris Collins"<chris...@me.com> >>>>>>>>> To: "Tapestry users"<users@tapestry.apache.org> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 6 December, 2011 7:48:57 AM >>>>>>>>> Subject: smarter css >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So when it comes to css3 is it really so ugly? Ok perhaps its just >>>>>>>>> things like gradients: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://ie.microsoft.com/testdrive/graphics/cssgradientbackgroundmaker/default.html >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> So in the microsoft example above for getting a gradient background >>>>>>>>> you have to use different css properties per browser. So say I was >>>>>>>>> trying to >>>>>>>>> add browser specific css to my layout component what would people >>>>>>>>> suggest as >>>>>>>>> the best strategy? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Random thoughts: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - You can't tml-ify css, if you could then you could condition parts >>>>>>>>> of it by browser right? >>>>>>>>> - Would you create a series of browser specific css assets then build >>>>>>>>> inject them directly into the layout page? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Clearly I don't have a clue :-} >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> again sorry for dumb questions. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >>>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >>>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >>>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >>>>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >>>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Howard M. Lewis Ship >>> >>> Creator of Apache Tapestry >>> >>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to >>> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! >>> >>> (971) 678-5210 >>> http://howardlewisship.com >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >> > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
