I don't see why you need a project to do that no. The EXACT reason for the in building stricture is that this "exemption" is for archival/preservation purposes only, it is NOT a "free" pass to upgrade a format. You are right about not being caught but then you probably won't get "caught" using an illegal dupe bought on the net of film never legally released or unless you are UCLA illegally streaming whole feature films to students lap tops. I did not think protecting copyright was about getting caught. You seem to find some elements of copyright law fair protection of rights holders OK but not others. Your list for instance includes many foreign films no longer available in the US or studio features that the studio has not yet released on DVD. Why should a library have the right to basically 'release" their own copy without contacting the rights holder? I did for instance notice a number of MGM silent films on your VHS only list. Well WB which owns those has been doing major work to get them out on DVD and the main reason they are not out yet is that they want them to be really nice when they do come out. If all the libraries that owned copies just made DVD dubs and put them on the shelves , WB is not going to have the market to spend time & money to release them. You will undoubtedly assure me that of course the library would rather have the nice new HD transfer than the crummy one it made, but who is to say that it will be replaced and the rights holder is not going to want to take the risk on the very fragile market for silent films.
We actually agree more than we disagree and I know you in fact make a serious effort for the good fight of protecting rights holders, but it is slippery slope from dubbing that inconvenient VHS to DVD to buying bootlegs, dubbing extra copies & Illegally streaming. Either you adhere to the copyright laws or you don't. On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 1:09 PM, <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> wrote: > Here's a scenario: two libraries are identified as owning only extant > copies of a particular documentary or feature (on vhs) in the U.S. and you > can't see the value of the project? > > By the way: The in-building only stricture of 108 is such a load of crap > that I can't see ANYONE in his or her right mind adhering to it. The > chances of getting busted for letting a faculty person classroom screen a > DVD copy made under the provisions of 108 are pretty slim. > > g. > > PS: The Mellon project is going to be developing careful procedures for > identifying those titles that clearly qualify for duplication under > 108...including, if necessary, identifying and contacting rights holders. > > > > Well then I will take the use of the word preservation more literally and > > less archivally, however if it only involves copying those deteriorating > > VHS to Digital.Since the"preservation" copy that can't leave the library > > premise I honestly don't know why one would need an entire project for > it. > > Under this scenerio it would in fact be irrelevant if say 5 libraries > > owned > > the same out of print film on VHS. If it was in fact detiorating , each > > makes its own "preservation" copy that does not leave the library. > > > > You will excuse my cynicism, but when again a major force in that > project > > tells librarians to NOT contact rights holders I get a little testy, > > especially when they present the project as one of "preservation". > > > > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:50 PM, <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> wrote: > > > >> We're talking about keeping stuff alive for use in working collections, > >> Jessica. Not David Shepard territory. > >> > >> g. > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Well re section 108. If you have that deteriorating VHS you can't > >> replace > >> > and do a transfer, it can't leave the library My argument was with > >> the > >> > "preservation' of said material. If you are just transferring it than > >> it > >> > is > >> > not preservation , at least not in the way I think of it. If you are > >> > actually spending money to do a preservation it would be insane to do > >> this > >> > without the copyright holders permission (if you can find them) and > >> > checking > >> > if the material exists beyond the US. Again this topic came up and > >> > someone > >> > did mention some French shorts that were held by a library, I know for > >> a > >> > fact those shorts are preserved in France and copyright protected so > >> > spending any money on them and actually telling librarians NOT to > >> check > >> > with rights holder, which this person did is stupid and could lead to > >> a > >> > mess > >> > of legal trouble assuming you ever want the "preserved" material to > >> leave > >> > the library. > >> > > >> > FYI the imdb link did not come up for me so I could not tell which > >> > version. > >> > > >> > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:21 PM, <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> > >> wrote: > >> > > >> >> ah what would I do without my daily Jessica annoyance. > >> >> > >> >> The Berlin Alexanderplatz on the list is the one directed by Phil > >> Jutzi > >> >> (1931)...not the 1980 TV series (on Criterion) > >> >> > >> >> The Leopard, you're right...we have the DVD and it shouldn't be on > >> the > >> >> list. > >> >> > >> >> I've included IMDB listings to distinguish the versions. The Uncle > >> Tom > >> >> in > >> >> question is the (really horrible) one directed Géza von Radványi > >> (France > >> >> | > >> >> Italy | West Germany | Yugoslavia, 1965). The Jekyll/Hyde is Herbert > >> >> Brenon's 1913 version. So, you see, I DO know what I'm doing > >> >> (generally) > >> >> > >> >> The NYU project is very likely going to focus primarily on > >> >> non-theatrical > >> >> titles. Jessica: The only difference between out of distribution > >> >> feature > >> >> films and out of distribution non-theatrical works from an > >> archivist's > >> >> perspective is the fact that the owners of the latter almost always > >> have > >> >> more economic clout and wherewithall to challenge efforts to > >> >> preserve/conserve. > >> >> > >> >> Section 108 of the copyright law makes no distinction whatsoever > >> between > >> >> features and others. > >> >> > >> >> gary > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > Gary > >> >> > I looked at this list VERY quickly and there are two obvious > >> mistakes. > >> >> The > >> >> > Leopard & Berlin Alexanderplatz are both on DVD from Criterion > >> >> > There many others where I am not sure which version you are looking > >> >> for, > >> >> > say > >> >> > Uncle Tom's Cabin, Dr. Jeckyl. On Genesis is that is the African > >> >> feature, > >> >> > Kino has it. > >> >> > > >> >> > I am less than certain how "good" the NYU project is as there is > >> HUGE > >> >> > difference between some very rare educational type films that are > >> not > >> >> DVD > >> >> > and > >> >> > studio, indie & foreign films that are not. I had my little > >> >> > "disagreement" > >> >> > with one the main people behind this , who told a session at ALA > >> that > >> >> one > >> >> > should NOT contact the rights holder regarding the rights because > >> they > >> >> > might > >> >> > actually say no, therefor the goal was merely to establish that the > >> >> item > >> >> > was > >> >> > rare and not available and the rights were irrelevant. Not only is > >> >> that a > >> >> > deliberate attempt to violate copyright but would lead to an > >> >> incredibly > >> >> > stupid waste of resources. Why in the world would a US library > >> >> "preserve" > >> >> > some early french short already archival preserved in their home > >> >> country > >> >> ( > >> >> > and this was actually one item that was mentioned at said ALA > >> >> session). > >> >> > > >> >> > On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 11:35 AM, <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> > >> >> wrote: > >> >> > > >> >> >> Hi all > >> >> >> > >> >> >> I think I mentioned awhile back the interesting Mellon funded > >> grant > >> >> >> project that NYU and UCB are currently working on... It's a > >> >> >> preservation > >> >> >> project aimed at identifying (and dealing with) video titles that > >> are > >> >> >> out-of-distribution and physically at risk (particularly titles > >> that > >> >> >> have > >> >> >> limited US holdings) > >> >> >> > >> >> >> In any case, as part of this project, I just culled thru > >> Berkeley's > >> >> >> feature film holdings and identified the vhs titles that are not > >> >> >> currently > >> >> >> available on DVD in the US marketplace. The list, fyi, is > >> attached. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> A few caveats: We haven't as yet done an extensive search for > >> >> >> legal-copy > >> >> >> DVD replacements in the OP marketplace (e.g. amazon marketplace), > >> nor > >> >> >> have > >> >> >> we searched non-US sources at this point. This is just a quick > >> first > >> >> >> pass. > >> >> >> The list also does not, at the moment, include stuff such as > >> shorts > >> >> >> (silents, avant garde, animation etc.)that are currently only > >> >> available > >> >> >> on > >> >> >> VHS anthologies. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> PS: Chris Lewis...weren't you maintaining a list of titles that > >> had > >> >> >> never > >> >> >> been released on DVD? If so, could you pls publish the list. > >> Merci! > >> >> >> > >> >> >> Gary Handman > >> >> >> Director > >> >> >> Media Resources Center > >> >> >> Moffitt Library > >> >> >> UC Berkeley > >> >> >> > >> >> >> 510-643-8566 > >> >> >> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu > >> >> >> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC > >> >> >> > >> >> >> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." > >> >> >> --Francois Truffaut > >> >> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion > >> of > >> >> >> issues > >> >> >> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > >> >> >> control, > >> >> >> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > >> >> libraries > >> >> >> and > >> >> >> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an > >> >> >> effective > >> >> >> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > >> >> communication > >> >> >> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers > >> and > >> >> >> distributors. > >> >> >> > >> >> >> > >> >> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion > >> of > >> >> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, > >> >> acquisition,bibliographic > >> >> > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video > >> formats > >> >> in > >> >> > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will > >> >> serve > >> >> > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a > >> >> channel > >> >> of > >> >> > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > >> >> > producers and distributors. > >> >> > > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> Gary Handman > >> >> Director > >> >> Media Resources Center > >> >> Moffitt Library > >> >> UC Berkeley > >> >> > >> >> 510-643-8566 > >> >> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu > >> >> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC > >> >> > >> >> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." > >> >> --Francois Truffaut > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > >> >> issues > >> >> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > >> >> control, > >> >> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > >> libraries > >> >> and > >> >> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an > >> >> effective > >> >> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > >> communication > >> >> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and > >> >> distributors. > >> >> > >> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > >> > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, > >> acquisition,bibliographic > >> > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats > >> in > >> > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will > >> serve > >> > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a > >> channel > >> of > >> > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > >> > producers and distributors. > >> > > >> > >> > >> Gary Handman > >> Director > >> Media Resources Center > >> Moffitt Library > >> UC Berkeley > >> > >> 510-643-8566 > >> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu > >> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC > >> > >> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." > >> --Francois Truffaut > >> > >> > >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > >> issues > >> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > >> control, > >> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries > >> and > >> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an > >> effective > >> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication > >> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and > >> distributors. > >> > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve > > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel > of > > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > > producers and distributors. > > > > > Gary Handman > Director > Media Resources Center > Moffitt Library > UC Berkeley > > 510-643-8566 > ghand...@library.berkeley.edu > http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC > > "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." > --Francois Truffaut > > > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues > relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, > preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and > related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective > working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication > between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and > distributors. >
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
