Thanks much, D. I think starting out in an adversarial frame of mind is never (underscore!) productive.
We're talking, after all, about libraries--L*I*B*R*A*R*I*E*S--not Bernie Madoff's office, not British Petroleum. While I think there is a fair amount of misinformation (and, in a few cases, misguided assumption) out there, I really believe that the majority of us are here to try to preserve the cultural record and do the right thing by rights owners. gary > Jessica (and Gary), > > I think I should step in a state the obvious. You can have a 100 pages of > due diligence regulations but it only works when the audiovisual person > wants to be honest, find the distributor or copyright holder and pay for > rights and/or work hard to get permission. Due diligence is really easy > when > you *don't* want to find the owner. BUT a large majority of people on this > listserv are here to do their jobs properly and ethically -- even if I > don't > agree sometimes in the ideas expressed here on pushing the envelope of > copyright. > > Jessica, we all know Gary is a champion of distributors, filmmakers and > films -- especially those films so far beneath even *my* guilty pleasure > trash meter that they make SHHH! THE OCTOPUS look like GONE WITH THE WIND. > ;-) > > And Gary, if anything I suggested be added to the report, I would be > happier, of course! > > The Dennis, 16mm projector guy (and by coincidence, I just put up a photo > on > Facebook of myself with my AV geek friend in high school back in those > days) > Milestone Film & Video/Milliarium Zero > PO Box 128 > Harrington Park, NJ 07640 > Phone: 201-767-3117 > Fax: 201-767-3035 > email: milefi...@gmail.com > www.milestonefilms.com > www.comebackafrica.com > www.yougottomove.com > www.ontheboweryfilm.com > www.arayafilm.com > www.exilesfilm.com > www.wordisoutmovie.com > www.killerofsheep.com > <http://www.killerofsheep.com/> > AMIA Austin 2011: www.amianet.org > Join "Milestone Film" on Facebook! > > Follow Milestone on Twitter! <http://twitter.com/#!/MilestoneFilms> > > On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:55 PM, Jessica Rosner > <jessicapros...@gmail.com>wrote: > >> Gary, >> Your own link states that one should NOT contact studios because they >> will just say no The framework is shoddy at best. If you really want >> to find rights holder you can use LOC for a lot more than stuff past >> 1978 it just takes more time and possibly money. >> >> As I have told you and others a a major person involved in this >> project stated openly at an ALA session that one should NOT try to >> contact rights holders. I believe they are far more active in this >> project than you. This response involved a 16mm print of French film >> that was not especially rare and whose owners could easily have been >> unidentified. My guess if you they had been contacted they would have >> quoted a rather high price , but heck that is what French Rights >> holders do. A wide array of venues in the US do pay them very high >> fees to project their films so who decides that if they tell you they >> want 500 Euros to make a DVD of their 20 minute short that is not >> reasonable? The point is a roomful of librarians were told NOT to try >> to contact the rights holder. Your "due diligence " list is >> specifically aimed at finding out if a film is available not who owns >> it. If the Carnegie folks want to help find out who owns rare films >> perhaps they could help pay for a decent copyright researcher? It is >> really not that hard to find out who owns the vast majority of films, >> IF you want to, but again the point of this project is not to contact >> and work with rights holders , it is to find a way to make films that >> for whatever reason rights holders have chosen not to release >> available without paying them a penny. >> >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:44 PM, <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> >> wrote: >> > Jessica... >> > >> > The whole idea of copyright and internet research (firmly planted in >> these >> > protocols) is to find rights holders... >> > >> > g >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> Univ. of Michigan had a team of lawyers. How did that work out? You >> >> literally admit NOT wanting to contact a rights holder and you are >> >> going to claim "due diligence" I STRONGLY suggest you get a legal >> >> opinion from someone outside the project without a vested >> >> interest. >> >> >> >> The Hathitrust project was huge and failed at its most basic level. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 12:21 PM, <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> >> wrote: >> >>> Disagree away. This kind of research is all about safe harbor and >> risk >> >>> mitigation. Our lawyer seems to feel the methodology we've >> developed >> is >> >>> sufficient to demonstrate good faith and due diligence. >> >>> >> >>> I can't speak for institutions that do not do the homework, Jessica. >> >>> >> >>> gary >> >>> >> >>> >> >>>> Needless to say I have a very fundamental disagreement with this >> and >> >>>> in terms of the law it is absurd. Basically it says ( as did one of >> >>>> the chief people involved in the Carnegie project) Make NO effort >> to >> >>>> contact the actual RIGHTS HOLDER. Whether this is a studio, a >> company >> >>>> in Europe or an independent filmmaker under no circumstances would >> it >> >>>> be considered "due diligence" not to make every effort to contact >> the >> >>>> rights holder. IF the rights holder says they will not sell it and >> >>>> have no intention of releasing it, you will have to decide if what >> you >> >>>> plan to do is covered by 108, but you can't just say make no >> attempt >> >>>> to contact a rights holder. I find this not only the height of >> >>>> arrogance but just an outrageous attitude towards filmmakers & >> >>>> distributors. >> >>>> >> >>>> I know I posted this but I will post it again so you can see what >> >>>> happens when and educational institution does NOT in fact engage in >> >>>> "due diligence" re copyright law. Actually this is a follow up to >> the >> >>>> original Chronicle article, I strongly suggest you read the follow >> up >> >>>> posts. I particularly like the part where some librarians tell >> authors >> >>>> they should be grateful they were going to have their works >> available >> >>>> illegally on line, since no one is taking out those books anyway. >> >>>> >> >>>> >> http://laboratorium.net/archive/2011/09/15/hathitrust_single-handedly_sinks_orphan_works_refo >> >>>> >> >>>> Also good luck on the "reasonable" price issue. Suppose you bought >> a >> >>>> 16mm print of a film for $1200 20 years ago. You reach the rights >> >>>> holder and they say yes they will make you a DVD-R for $1,000, is >> that >> >>>> "unreasonable"? It is after all less than you paid before? >> >>>> >> >>>> On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:41 AM, <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> >> >>>> wrote: >> >>>>> Following on the, um, lively 108 discussion of the past few days, >> I >> am >> >>>>> going to share some ideas regarding appropriate due diligence and >> >>>>> research >> >>>>> guidelines Berkeley is developing (in connection with the >> NYU/Berkeley >> >>>>> Mellon project). >> >>>>> >> >>>>> The attached represents preliminary thinking regarding what we >> think >> >>>>> is >> >>>>> reasonable research in advance of invoking 108. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> Gary Handman >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion >> of >> >>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >> >>>>> acquisition,bibliographic >> >>>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video >> formats >> >>>>> in >> >>>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will >> >>>>> serve >> >>>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >> >>>>> channel >> >>>>> of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and >> video >> >>>>> producers and distributors. >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> -- >> >>>> Jessica Rosner >> >>>> Media Consultant >> >>>> 224-545-3897 (cell) >> >>>> 212-627-1785 (land line) >> >>>> jessicapros...@gmail.com >> >>>> >> >>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion >> of >> >>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >> acquisition,bibliographic >> >>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video >> formats >> in >> >>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will >> >>>> serve >> >>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >> channel >> >>>> of >> >>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video >> >>>> producers and distributors. >> >>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> Gary Handman >> >>> Director >> >>> Media Resources Center >> >>> Moffitt Library >> >>> UC Berkeley >> >>> >> >>> 510-643-8566 >> >>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >> >>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC >> >>> >> >>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." >> >>> --Francois Truffaut >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >> >>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >> acquisition,bibliographic >> >>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats >> in >> >>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will >> serve >> >>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >> channel >> >>> of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and >> video >> >>> producers and distributors. >> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Jessica Rosner >> >> Media Consultant >> >> 224-545-3897 (cell) >> >> 212-627-1785 (land line) >> >> jessicapros...@gmail.com >> >> >> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >> >> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, >> acquisition,bibliographic >> >> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats >> in >> >> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will >> serve >> >> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a >> channel >> of >> >> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video >> >> producers and distributors. >> >> >> > >> > >> > Gary Handman >> > Director >> > Media Resources Center >> > Moffitt Library >> > UC Berkeley >> > >> > 510-643-8566 >> > ghand...@library.berkeley.edu >> > http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC >> > >> > "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." >> > --Francois Truffaut >> > >> > >> > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic >> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in >> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve >> as >> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of >> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video >> producers and distributors. >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Jessica Rosner >> Media Consultant >> 224-545-3897 (cell) >> 212-627-1785 (land line) >> jessicapros...@gmail.com >> >> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of >> issues >> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic >> control, >> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries >> and >> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an >> effective >> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication >> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and >> distributors. >> > > > > -- > VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of > issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic > control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in > libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve > as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of > communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video > producers and distributors. > Gary Handman Director Media Resources Center Moffitt Library UC Berkeley 510-643-8566 ghand...@library.berkeley.edu http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself." --Francois Truffaut VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and distributors.
