Stewart,
Re yr queries:
1. Yes, I do think that all the 'strum' marks should be taken seriously;
this is my general starting point. I have not (yet!) found anything in B which
cannot be strummed. Incidentally I take it as read that we're not always
speaking about vigourous strumming (say in the modern flamenco manner) but a
range of sophisticated movements. The sort of strum in these places is, I
suggest, much more of a gentle single finger strum - in fact almost like a
gentle plucking but across two, or more, strings [one occasionaly finds a
similar sort of thing in Corbetta (and others) where a strum on the strong beat
is followed by more strums with the highest course playing a melodic passage
but the same chord held on the other strings but I don't want to get side
tracked onto this].
2. In my example I expanded the original simply to show what I believe was
happening (or not) on all courses. Similarly I wrote 02 simply to show what one
might think of doing if the previous chord was not held (here just one note
'tied' over the 1st on 5th course .
3. Re the 'single' notes; as mentioed and as in my example, they are not in
fact single - you must play the previous indicated notes except for the new one
(perhaps my newly invented[!] tablatures is not clear). This is quite common
practice. So, for example, the chord at the end of the line is -323- (ie strum
the chord of 4th course at 3rd fret, 3rd course at 2nd, 2nd course at 3rd)
4. Re the 'dissonant' chords. I think the chords you worry about as being
strange are not so in practice: these are simply passing dissonances (also
fairly common in vocal music of the period) from one main chord to another.
Just strum them (gently!) and I think you may see what I mean.
Martyn
PS Where did you get your Book 5 from?
Stuart Walsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Martyn Hodgson wrote:
> '
> My dog's pennyworth:
>
>
> Why doesn't it make sense to strum? Surely it's a particular effect he's
> after: I think he does indeed want it strummed.
>
> The entire section gradually gets 'higher' and it's all part of a long rising
> phrase. I'm using a bourdon on the 4th but even with both 4ths at the upper
> octave (I just took off the 4th bourdon to try) there is still the effect of
> a gradual rising throughout the section and this is probably what he was
> aiming for. Yet another reason to give him the honour of the greatest of the
> 'baroque' guitarists: isn't it a great shame there's no other music, other
> that is than for guitar, by him to survive.
>
> I agree there is the problem of whether to play some open courses. However, I
> do think he generally assumes a tie over so that, for example, from the
> double bar the chord (with the 5th first etc) is not 02 of course but 12. so
> the sequence starts from just before the double bar:
>
02 isn't in the tablature, is it? There is just a single note on the
fifth course at this point (line 7 bar 4).
>
> 10---/_12---,03---/_13---,310--/_312--,-033-/_-133-,-321-/_-323-,--543-/ etc
> lovely stuff...
>
> - means unplayed course
> _ means previous chord played on first beat
>
> Martyn
>
Martyn, are you saying that all of Foscarini's strum marks are actually
to be strummed? This sounds like a bit of a daft question. But Monica is
suggesting that some strum marks aren't actually functioning as strums
but as something else.
So here's the passage, marked in red.
http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/FoscoToccata-1a.jpg
Monica suggests it should be played pizzicato, lute style, with the
stroke signs indicating that you repeat the note or notes until they
change. But why didn't Foscarini just write out the notes twice (or
three times). On other pages he has fancy drawings - he doesn't seem
like the sort of chap who needs to worry about saving time. And why are
there both up and down strokes to indicate this one thing? (Monica says
it's just a sort of hangover from alfabeto.)
And Martyn suggests that the passage is strummed. Now in this passage on
line 7 there are three single notes and you can't strum a single note.
And what about the double notes. Yes, they can be strummed but is there
much evidence from other Baroque guitar music of strummed note pairs?
Indeed is there much evidence of strumming only the inner three courses?
Perhaps there is. Perhaps this is what makes Foscarini special. (But I'm
getting to get a bit sceptical now. Foscarini is supposed to have
influence others. Are there, for example, lots of passages in Corbetta,
for example, with longish passages in thirds on adjacent strings that
are unequivocally to be strummed?). What I'm saying is that if every
strum sign is Foscarini is taken literally, you are going to be using
techniques which are not much visible in other Baroque guitar music. On
this ground too, you might wonder if the strum signs really do mean
strums in all cases.
Either way, plucked or strummed, it's an ascending sequence.
As far as note lengths are concerned I think it is like this (from the
beginning of the sequence in red):
line 7: bar 3: full letter H (Bb) for a minim,then Bb and d plucked
(Monica) or strummed (Martyn). Bar 4: has four crotchets. (1)Bb and d
(2) e, (3)A and f (4)A and f.
************** NO as explained, notes of the previous chord are held over
(except of course for that which changes ie 4th course to fret2) so 2nd beat of
bar 4 is NOT just e BUT is Bb and e etc in other places.............
**************************************************************************************
Bar 5: (1) A and f (2)Bb and f (3) c and eb (4) c and eb. etc Mostly, in
this sequence, the notes played on the final beat of the bar are
repeated at the beginning of the bar.
In Martyn's version there is a quite tart Bb and e. Maybe! He adds a g
to the c and eb (line 7, bar 5). Maybe. And then in bar 6 he inteprets
the single note on the third course as part of an implied chord with
that note added to the previously played notes. That's what I used to
think was going on. This principle of adding a single note with a strum
stroke to a previous strummed chord, turns out mostly believable
results in this passage. But line 9, bar 2. Is the Eb to be added to the
previous G minor chord. Pretty colourful. Maybe. But now look at line 2,
last two bars. You can't add the single note (with the pluck stroke) to
the previous chord. The third position N chord (Bb) with add e is just
not 17th C harmony. (Well! I don't think it is, at least not without
resolving in some way. It's not part of some elaborate harmonic
sequence.) The third position M chord is actually physically unplayable
with the b on the first course.
Anyway, I think Foscarini has established almost from the beginning, in
the little alfabeto pieces at the start of the book, that there are
single notes (but with strum signs) interspersed with chords .For
example there may be a chord strum, a single note followed by an up
stroke, then that same chord strummed again. (The Spagnoletta on page 8,
for example. Second strain, in particular, has a third position C chord
with a Bb on the first course).
So I think I'm agreeing with Monica that some strum signs in Foscarini
aren't actually strums.
Stuart
> Monica Hall wrote:
> I wonder if I can elicit another Pavlovian response from Martyn - or anyone
> else.
>
> There is a Toccatta in Foscarini's 5th book on p.105.
>
> Stuart has put it on his website for the benefit of those who don't have it
> to hand at
>
> http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/FoscoToccata-1a.jpg
>
> There is a particularly interesting passage on stave 7 starting after Chord
> H at the double bar outlined in red - in particular the three bars which
> follow the double bar.
>
> It seems to me to make no sense to strum those notes on the 4th/5th
> course - and it doesn't make much sense to include any open courses other
> than
> those he has indicated himself throughout the section although in some
> places it is possible. It is just a
> bit of 2/3 part counterpoint which should be played in lute style.
>
> What I think is that to save himself some trouble he has put in the
> figures only once and the stroke marks
> are there to tell you how many times to play the single notes or chords
> before moving to the next ones. The stroke marks are not there to tell
> that you must play the notes with a finger or thumb up and down.
>
> This is Suart's website again
>
> http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/FoscoToccata-1a.jpg
>
> Answers on a postcard to...
>
> Monica
>
>
>
> To get on or off this list see list information at
> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Support the World Aids Awareness campaign this month with Yahoo! for Good
> --
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Sent from Yahoo! - a smarter inbox.
--
