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*From:* Stuart Walsh <s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
*To:* Eugene C. Braig IV <brai...@osu.edu>
*Cc:* List LUTELIST <l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Vihuelalist
<vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
*Sent:* Fri, July 30, 2010 2:03:31 PM
*Subject:* [VIHUELA] Re: Four c. guitar
Eugene C. Braig IV wrote:
> Yes, I agree with all, especially regarding elaborating on brief dance
> melodies or chord progressions. It's hard to guess what
improvisation on
> guitar might have sounded like in the renaissance or baroque era.
It's when
> there is an abrupt change of style leaning heavily on new-agey-sounding
> suspensions, etc. that such improvisations can be distracting.
>
> Best,
> Eugene
>
>
>
I hope Massimo won't mind me including an example. Overall, he plays
very beautifully and he adds strums, which, of course, are not in the
original but which sound really appropriate and musical. And he uses
some strange inegale at times too, which maybe what some people did or
how he, as a musician, hears the music.
(And in general, no doubt, all sorts of improvisation was used all
over the place)
What bothers me are these rather fay little vamps which he uses in a
number of the dances. Here is an example: many people will know this
little Branle de Champaigne. Ex1 is the opening - four bars of the
little vamp figure and then the actual music. At the end of the Branle
the vamp figure returns as a sort of interlude into a repeat (Ex2).
It's a very attractive little dance and it's very short and the vamp
makes it into something bigger. But it seems, to me anyway, really
quite out of character. Surely an improvised second run through (or a
written out 'plus diminueé') would surely be better. Or play a set of
dances. Or just play it twice.
opening (Ex1)
http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/ex1.mp3
middle Ex2)
http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/ex2.mp3
Stuart
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
[mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu <mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>] On
>> Behalf Of Chris Despopoulos
>> Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 12:23 PM
>> To: Eugene C. Braig IV; List LUTELIST; Vihuelalist
>> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Four c. guitar
>>
>> Having just attended classes on the Baroque Guitar at La Semana de
>> Musica Antigua in Gijon, Spain...
>> Eduardo Eguez pointed out that the Sanz manuscript is a book of
>> ensenyanza... that is, you're learning the pieces. Most certainly,
>> any player above the beginner level would have taken these as
>> suggestions, and would have improvised on these themes. That
was how I
>> took Eduardo's message on that front, anyway. Yes, there's
music that
>> is composed to the fullest extent, but Sanz (at least) seems to have
>> made illustrations more so than compositions, per se. It may be
that
>> most of the existing guitar works are intended to be taken with a
>> similar grain of salt? (Still thinking about that...)
>> I have noticed a relatively recent movement in terms of Baroque
guitar
>> performance that tends toward improvisation. Xavier Diaz
Latorre does
>> this wonderfully, I think.
>> In the same festival I attended a series of classes on
disminuacion and
>> ornamentacion. Again, the idea was that melodic lines were meant to
>> include the addition of passing phrases from one note to another,
>> and/or ornamentation -- all at the discretion of the performer.
In a
>> word, improvisation. And again, I notice that players are achieving
>> this today. Interestingly, we had another set of classes that
covered
>> a flame war between Monteverdi and Artusi, where Artusi
complained that
>> Monteverti's dissonances would be fine in the context of
improvisation,
>> but a serious composition should not have such things. Then back to
>> the improvisation class where we saw an example of Monteverdi
writing a
>> series of disminuaciones and ornamentaciones in a singer's part
-- to
>> be performed exactly as written! Ostensibly, they were to "sound"
>> improvised???
>> And of course, there's continuo, which is essentially structured
>> improvisation.
>> I think the bottom line is, there were lots of cases where
>> improvisation was appropriate, and lots where it wasn't. In other
>> words, um... er... Well, you know...
>> cud
>> __________________________________________________________________
>>
>> From: Eugene C. Braig IV <brai...@osu.edu <mailto:brai...@osu.edu>>
>> To: List LUTELIST <l...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<mailto:l...@cs.dartmouth.edu>>; Vihuelalist
>> <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu <mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>>
>> Sent: Fri, July 30, 2010 11:39:51 AM
>> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Four c. guitar
>> Such improvised indulgences seem to me to find home amongst a
greater
>> proportion of 4- and 5-course guitarists (Lonardi, Lislevand,
Ferries,
>> etc.)
>> than lutenists or players of modern classical or early 6-string
>> guitars. I
>> wonder why that is. Sometimes it sounds quite nice, but is
sometimes a
>> bit
>> distracting.
>> Eugene
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>] On
>> > Behalf Of Stuart Walsh
>> > Sent: Friday, July 30, 2010 11:20 AM
>> > To: Eugene C. Braig IV
>> > Cc: 'List LUTELIST'; 'Vihuelalist'
>> > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Four c. guitar
>> >
>> > Eugene C. Braig IV wrote:
>> > > Craddock's recording is now super-hard to find. I would love to
>> have a
>> > > copy, but can't seem to track one down at a reasonable price.
>> > >
>> > > Also look into:
>> > >
>> > > Lonardi, Massimo. 2006. Comienc,a la Musica para Guitarra.
>> Stradivarius.
>> > >
>> >
>> > Massimo plays very well indeed but for many of the little
dances he
>> adds
>> > a sort of intro/outro (and sometimes interlude) vamp.
Listeners who
>> > didn't know the originals might have thought these
(modern-sounding,
>> > folksy) vamps were in the original tablatures . I can see that
he's
>> > trying to frame them and make them special but I've often
thought of
>> > actually taking the trouble to edit them out.
>> >
>> >
>> > Stuart
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > > Marincola, Federico. 1994. Pieces pour Luth/Pieces pour Guitare.
>> Disques
>> > > Pierre Verany.
>> > >
>> > > Smith, Hopkinson. 1992. Alonso Mudarra: Tres Libros de Musica en
>> Cifras
>> > Para
>> > > Vihuela. Auvidis/Astree.
>> > >
>> > > The former is all 4-course guitar and quite nice to my
ears. The
>> latter
>> > two
>> > > features mostly lute or vihuela, but include a fair number
of tasty
>> > guitar
>> > > solos and are also quite nice. ...Not to mention Jocelyn's fine
>> recent
>> > > effort: [3]http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/nelsonbartram. Even Anthony
>> Rooley
>> > > indulged in a little 4-course guitar on Renaissance
Fantasias, but
>> only
>> > a
>> > > little.
>> > >
>> > > Best,
>> > > Eugene
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >> -----Original Message-----
>> > >> From: [4]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> [mailto:[5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>] On
>> > >> Behalf Of Laura Maschi
>> > >> Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2010 11:05 PM
>> > >> To: Bruno Correia
>> > >> Cc: List LUTELIST
>> > >> Subject: [LUTE] Re: Four c. guitar
>> > >>
>> > >> Also check michael Craddock wonderful recording released around
>> 2008...
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >> Enviado desde mi iPod
>> > >>
>> > >> El 29/07/2010, a las 23:40, Bruno Correia
>> <[6]bruno.l...@gmail.com <mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com>>
>> > >> escribio:
>> > >>
>> > >>
>> > >>> I think John Williams never read anything about the
history of
>> his
>> > >>> own
>> > >>> instrument. Check at 1:38. Couldn't believe he said that,
>> specially
>> > >>> after watching those great videos by Jocelyn Nelson.
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
[1][7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_LNU1-s4BE&feature=related
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_LNU1-s4BE&feature=related>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> --
>> > >>>
>> > >>> References
>> > >>>
>> > >>> 1.
[8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_LNU1-s4BE&feature=related
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_LNU1-s4BE&feature=related>
>> > >>>
>> > >>>
>> > >>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>> > >>> [9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
<http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html>
>> > >>>
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>>
>> --
>>
>> References
>>
>> 1. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> 2. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> 3. http://www.cdbaby.com/cd/nelsonbartram
>> 4. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> 5. mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu
<mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu>
>> 6. mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com <mailto:bruno.l...@gmail.com>
>> 7. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_LNU1-s4BE&feature=related
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_LNU1-s4BE&feature=related>
>> 8. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_LNU1-s4BE&feature=related
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_LNU1-s4BE&feature=related>
>> 9. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>
>
>
>
>
