I'd like to chime in (no pun intended) as a cured classical guitarist. (And let me add, nothing is worse than a cured drunk.) Hello, I'm Chris, and I'm a classical guitarist. Today I've been bordon - free for six months (applause). Actually, I struggled with this issue when I first got my instrument, and received some stinging replies -- the internet works that way. The point has been taken, and I'm happier for it. Indeed, the idiosyncrasies of the instrument are a very big deal. Not only do they affect the sound you hear. They affect the logic of your interpretation. I'm currently being extreme, and using the Sanz, no-bordon stringing. That means I have to ground myself with a G as the lowest note. Classical guitarists are used to grounding themselves in the lowest note of a voicing, and building their interpretation of voice leading (is that what you call it???) and melodic development on that. Well, we're also used to finding it THREE whole strings below the G. Grounding on the G in a 5-course instrument requires changes in physical logic, muscle logic, reading logic, melodic logic, and voicing logic. Probably the most difficult thing is to take a piece you learned and loved from a Narciso Yepes transcription of Sanz, and then play it on the Baroque guitar. Talk about cambio del chip, as they say in Spain... Or as the Firesign Theater once said, "Everything You Know is Wrong." This is a GOOD thing. Embrace it. cud __________________________________________________________________
From: Monica Hall <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> To: WALSH STUART <s.wa...@ntlworld.com> Cc: Vihuelalist <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 7:09:10 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Bartolotti Videos performed by Lex Eisenhardt ----- Original Message ----- From: "WALSH STUART" <[1]s.wa...@ntlworld.com> To: "Alexander Batov" <[2]alexander.ba...@vihuelademano.com> Cc: "Vihuelalist" <[3]vihu...@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Wednesday, August 25, 2010 9:42 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Bartolotti Videos performed by Lex Eisenhardt > On 24 August 2010 21:52, Alexander Batov > <[1][4]alexander.ba...@vihuelademano.com> wrote: > > OK, I'm glad we agree on this. > Alexander > On 24/08/2010 21:44, Monica Hall wrote: > > It's not my rationale! I prefer the msuic without the bourdon on > the 5th course. > I've just been listening to the same suite on the CD which Lex made > in 1994 - with the "French" tuning. Much better in every way. > Monica > > > > > I'd be fascinated to hear both versions! The campanellas on these > videos sound great with the low bourdons - or rather, with skilful > avoidance of them (when necessary, as in campanellas). And their > presence is very subtle. Alexander didn't even hear the low fifth. > > I know Monica and Lex have disputed these matters at length. > > This is obviously very sophisticated music. If (if) there is not > sufficient evidence for either approach, and if it comes down to > preference, then I think I'd rather go for bourdons. But it would be > really interesting to hear one piece side by side with and without a > bourdon on the fifth. > > > Stuart Well - that's what I was able to do as I have the CD. I think the quality of the recording of the CD is better than in the video - which is of a live performance and presumably unedited. But the point is that in the video he is trying to leave out the bourdons most of the time and to my ears this results in the campanellas sounding tentative and uneven - they don't ring out and overlap creating a bell-like effect. The idea that the skips of a 7th etc must be eliminated so that all you have is a rather feeble scale passage which would sound better played in a conventional way is misguided. That's not what happens with bell ringing. Also the bourdon on the fifth course creates an imbalence between 2 and 3 part counterpoint and the strummed 5-part chords which are too prominent - especially if they are 6-4s. There is no clear continuous bass line anyway and even in the gigue where there are imitative entries you hear these in the upper octave rather than the lower because it is impossible to leave the high octave string out. The re-entrant effect is a constant. I don't know what kind of strings he is using but in places the bourdon on the 5th course sound twangy. Overwound perhaps which Bartolotti would never have used. I would say that if you are going to use bourdons you should use plain gut ones and use them - not leave them out 90% of the time. I just find this idea that somehow all the idiocyncracies must be eliminated and the music made to sound as if it were rather inferior classical guitar music is incredibly pedantic. It is the idiocyncracies that make the music more interesting. In both recordings the ornamentation is very basic. I know that Bartolotti's instructions are very basic too - but I am sure that in practice something much more elaborate would be appropriate. Unfortunately most people who play this stuff are classical guitarists who simply haven't registered that the baroque guitar and its music are different from what they are used to. Monica > > > To get on or off this list see list information at > [2][5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > > -- > > References > > 1. mailto:[6]alexander.ba...@vihuelademano.com > 2. [7]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > -- References 1. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com 2. mailto:alexander.ba...@vihuelademano.com 3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:alexander.ba...@vihuelademano.com 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html 6. mailto:alexander.ba...@vihuelademano.com 7. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html