Yes, but I was also getting at the logic of his composition. He takes
your right hand and moves it around in ways that you would never
expect. And he breaks the voices up in ways that do really hide the
polyphony... but reveal it at the same time. It's sort of like a
painting that suggest the form more than explicitly outlines it. If
you look at it in a certain way, you see it like a photograph. A
different way of seeing reduces it to loosely connected
calligraphy. It's truly amazing stuff, and I can't pretend I understand
it. But I like it!
cud
__________________________________________________________________
From: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <nels...@ecu.edu>
To: Chris Despopoulos <despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com>; Stuart Walsh
<s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
Cc: Vihuelalist <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Mon, January 17, 2011 11:43:16 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces
Hi Chris,
I think you're too modest about the clarity of texture you achieve,
but
I agree that
tablature can be an excellent type of notation; much more useful than
we
moderns expect.
Best,
Jocelyn
On 1/16/2011 4:09 AM, "Chris Despopoulos"
<[1][1]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks for the encouragement. I'll say that if you can hear
distinct
voices in the mandore, blame the composer. The logic of his
compositions, and the way he implies continuity in the voices
when
the
plectrum can't carry it explicitly is pure genius. The tablature
indicates everything -- up and down strokes are particularly
important. You could almost imagine an elaborate wind-up machine
controlled by the instructions and successfully playing this
stuff,
it's that logical.
Cheers cud
__________________________________________________________________
From: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[2][2]nels...@ecu.edu>
To: Chris Despopoulos <[3][3]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com>;
Stuart
Walsh
<[4][4]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
Cc: Vihuelalist <[5][5]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>
Sent: Fri, January 14, 2011 7:26:28 PM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces
I enjoyed this, Chris. The voices in the Chancy pieces are clear
and
distinct from each other, and it's kind of amazing you were able
to
this with a plectrum. So I think you do show the depth in these
little
pieces. Chancy's an interesting composer.
And I like your strums in the Sanz! Thanks for posting and
sending
the
link.
Best,
Jocelyn
________________________________________
From: Chris Despopoulos [[1][6][6]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2011 12:39 PM
To: Stuart Walsh; Nelson, Jocelyn
Cc: Vihuelalist
Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces
Always one to toot my own horn (or pluck my own strings, as it
were), I
have posted some recordings on my personal site at:
[2][7][7]http://cudspan.net/baroque/
Two tracks are some old recordings I did on the mandore, and
three
others are on the baroque guitar... I keep meaning to do better,
but
where's the time?
Anyway, the mandore recordings are of Chancy's Suite #5, and 3 of
his
series of 6 branles. The tablatures are for a 4-string
instrument,
and
as I understand it, to be played with a plectrum. At least
that's
what
I was taught by Didier Le Roux and other members of l'Ensemble
Gabriel
Leone (I was *very* fortunate to attend a class that reviewed the
mandolin. I never made it past the mandore.)
In spite of being played with a plectrum, the Chancy music is
full
of
hidden polyphony. For the miniature qualities it has on the
surface, I
believe the music is vast in scope... if only I could reveal a
fraction of its depth and breadth I'd be happy.
Anyway, for your enjoyment... Vive le mandore!
cheers cud
________________________________
From: Stuart Walsh <[3][8][8]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
To: "Nelson, Jocelyn" <[4][9][9]nels...@ecu.edu>
Cc: Vihuelalist <[5][10][10]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu>; Chris
Despopoulos
<[6][11][11]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com>
Sent: Wed, January 12, 2011 11:52:10 AM
Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces
On 12/01/2011 16:35, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:
> Certainly nothing wrong with dances and ballad tunes, as you
demonstrate.
>
> Is the tuning similar to the 4-course?
>
> I'm not familiar with mandore literature, and now I'm looking
forward
to
> learning more about it.
>
> JN
>
>
>
Jean-Marie Poirier has a site devoted to the instrument.
[7][12][12]http://le.luth.free.fr/mandore/index.html
It's French, of course but there is a pdf of an article by the
late
James Tyler from Early Music. Donald Gill and James Tyler have
both
tried to promote the mandore (and the mandolino) and have both
written
about them.
Supposing a tuning with top d (it might be g - or something else)
then
a
four-course tuning would be g-d-g-d (or g-d-g'-d' or maybe I mean
d'',
but you get the point!). And a five course instrument would be
d-g-d-g-d. But on both four and five-course instruments the top
course
could be lowered to c, b flat etc. Also the Skene MS has a
section
of
pieces in lute tuning.
Stuart
>
> On 1/11/2011 2:34 PM, "Stuart
Walsh"<[8][13][13]s.wa...@ntlworld.com<[14]mailto:[9][14]s.walsh@ntlwor
ld.com>>
wrote:
>
>> On 11/01/2011 01:48, Nelson, Jocelyn wrote:
>>> I really enjoyed this, Stuart. Thanks for posting!
>>> Best,
>>> Jocelyn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> I have only one section of the Ulm collection and in that
there
are
123
>> pieces for five-course mandore (fingerstyle or mixed plectrum
and
>> fingers) and a small number for four-course mandore (probably
plectrum).
>> So the Skene and the Ulm collections make up several hundred
pieces
-
>> approaching the size of the repertoire for the four-course
guitar.
And
>> then there are the Chancy pieces and some other things.
>>
>> Of course the four-course guitar's repertoire is more varied:
songs,
>> abstract pieces, chanson settings as well as dances etc and
the
mandore
>> repertoire seems to be mainly dances and ballad tunes. Very
nice
though.
>>
>>
>> Stuart
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 1/10/2011 7:04 AM, "Chris
Despopoulos"<[10][15][15]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com<[16]mailto:[11]de
spop
oulos_ch
[17][16]r...@yahoo.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks... My instrument is 30 cm, and actually 5-course,
single
>>>> strung. I presume it's made according to historical
>>>> understanding...
>>>> I believe Carlos Gonzales is a historian as well as
builder
--
he's
>>>> planning a workshop on building ancient Egyptian/Coptic
lutes
this
>>>> April, for example. I prefer to use the thin quill of a
feather as
>>>> a
>>>> plectrum, as I saw done on the R. lute once. For as thin
and
short
>>>> as
>>>> the strings are, it helps to have something equally tiny
to
set
the
>>>> string in motion. And of course, the Chancy MS is to be
done
with a
>>>> plectrum as far as I know.
>>>> But I have to say, your playing had me fooled... It
sounds
like a
>>>> mandore to me! And they are lovely tunes.
>>>> cud
>>>>
__________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: Stuart
Walsh<[12][18][17]s.wa...@ntlworld.com<[19]mailto:[13][18]s.walsh@ntlwo
rld.com>
>
>>>> To:
Vihuelalist<[14][20][19]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu<[21]mailto:[15]vihuela
@cs.
dartmout
[20]h.edu>>
>>>> Sent: Mon, January 10, 2011 6:19:40 AM
>>>> Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some Ulm mandore pieces
>>>> Thanks Chris
>>>> I should have said I'm not playing these pieces on a
mandore,
but
>>>> on a
>>>> small, single-strung instrument, tuned like a mandore. My
instrument
>>>> has a string length of 37cms and so is larger (and, no
doubt,
>>>> easier to
>>>> play) than a typical four-course, four-string mandore. On
the
other
>>>> hand, maybe there was a difference in size between the
four-course
>>>> (four-string) plectrum-played mandore and the
five-course,
>>>> fingerstyle
>>>> (or plectrum+fingers style) instrument.
>>>> I knew about the Ulm tablatures from Donald Gill and
James
Tyler
>>>> but it
>>>> was Jean-Marie Poirier who pointed me in the direction of
the
>>>> Cornetto
>>>> catalogue.
>>>> [1][16][22][21]http://www.faksimiles.org/verlag.htm
>>>> I think there are three separate tabaltures in the Ulm
collection
>>>> and
>>>> the Cornetto facsimiles are quite expensive. At
Jean-Marie's
>>>> suggestion
>>>> I got Cornetto catalogue, 0073 which turned out to be two
>>>> nicely-produced facsimiles. The main 'book' (there's
probably
a
>>>> technical name for a publication roughly 8 inches by 6
inches)
has
>>>> music for a five course instrument and uses a couple of
tunings
but
>>>> mainly one (in fourths and fifths, without lowering the
first
>>>> course).
>>>> Like the Skene MS, it has to be fingerstyle or plectrum
plus
>>>> fingers.
>>>> The supplementary 'book' has only a few pieces, all or
mainly
from
>>>> the
>>>> larger collection, but now set for a four-course
instrument,
>>>> presumably
>>>> to be played with a plectrum.
>>>> Stuart
>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at
>>>>
[2][17][23][22]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html<[
18]h
ttp:
//www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> References
>>>>
>>>> 1. [19][24][23]http://www.faksimiles.org/verlag.htm
>>>> 2.
[20][25][24]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
>
>
--
References
1. [26]mailto:[25]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
2. [27][26]http://cudspan.net/baroque/
3. [28]mailto:[27]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
4. [29]mailto:[28]nels...@ecu.edu
5. [30]mailto:[29]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. [31]mailto:[30]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
7. [32][31]http://le.luth.free.fr/mandore/index.html
8. [33]mailto:[32]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
9. [34]mailto:[33]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
10. [35]mailto:[34]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
11. [36]mailto:[35]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
12. [37]mailto:[36]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
13. [38]mailto:[37]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
14. [39]mailto:[38]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
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16. [41][40]http://www.faksimiles.org/verlag.htm
17.
[42][41]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
18.
[43][42]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
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20.
[45][44]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
--
References
1. mailto:[45]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
2. mailto:[46]nels...@ecu.edu
3. mailto:[47]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
4. mailto:[48]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
5. mailto:[49]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:[50]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
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8. mailto:[52]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
9. mailto:[53]nels...@ecu.edu
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11. mailto:[55]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
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13. mailto:[57]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
14. mailto:[9][58]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
15. mailto:[59]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
16. mailto:[11]despopoulos_ch
17. mailto:[60]r...@yahoo.com
18. mailto:[61]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
19. mailto:[13][62]s.wa...@ntlworld.com>
20. mailto:[63]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
21. mailto:[15][64]vihuela@cs.dartmout
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23.
[66]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html<[18]http
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28. mailto:[71]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
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31. mailto:[74]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
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33. mailto:[76]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
34. mailto:[77]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
35. mailto:[78]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
36. mailto:[79]despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
37. mailto:[80]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
38. mailto:[81]s.wa...@ntlworld.com
39. mailto:[82]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
40. mailto:[83]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
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--
References
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2. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
3. mailto:despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
4. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
5. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
6. mailto:despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
7. http://cudspan.net/baroque/
8. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
9. mailto:nels...@ecu.edu
10. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
11. mailto:despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
12. http://le.luth.free.fr/mandore/index.html
13. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
14. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
15. mailto:despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
16. mailto:r...@yahoo.com
17. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
18. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
19. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
20. http://h.edu/
21. http://www.faksimiles.org/verlag.htm
22. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
23. http://www.faksimiles.org/verlag.htm
24. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
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30. mailto:despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
31. http://le.luth.free.fr/mandore/index.html
32. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
33. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
34. mailto:despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
35. mailto:despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
36. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
37. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
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39. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
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41. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
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64. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmout
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74. mailto:despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
75. http://le.luth.free.fr/mandore/index.html
76. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
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79. mailto:despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com
80. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
81. mailto:s.wa...@ntlworld.com
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83. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
84. http://www.faksimiles.org/verlag.htm
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88. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
