I was under the impression that it was protocol on this list to reply to
person sending the message with a copy to the list, - not just to reply to
the list.
I would plead that it is a minor crime; I was not aware of any protocols.
But it would of course be good if we all conformed here to what sometimes is
called 'netiquette'.
In his preface Grenerin fails to tell
if the guitar could
be used together with a bowed string bass; only the continuo of the
basse de viole with the harpsichord (a standard combination) is
mentioned.
I would regard these as alternatives for what he has actually provided in
the score.
Still, basse de viole and harpsichord is the only alternative he has
mentioned unambiguously.
At the beginning of the simphonies he says they are for 2 violins
with the bass - the accompaniment for guitar and theorbo - not guitar or
theorbo. At least it is reasonably clear that the accompaniment is to be
played by two instruments.
It has a realized accompaniment for guitar, and a continuo line for the
theorbo. So, accompaniment for guitar and theorbo. I would say it is unclear
if these are supposed to be performed at the same time.
It should be compared to the songs 'with accompaniment of the guitar.' They
include a continuo line as well.
Taking the risk of being accused of hairsplitting, I would insist that it
needs to be explained why there is an almost complete lack of information
about these combinations of instruments, in relation to French or Italian
music. Neither could I find any reference to guitar and organ (or guitar and
fagotto or trombone). We might be creating a new performance tradition,
based on quicksand.
Such information would have been very welcome, because
so very little
is known of the combination of the guitar and other instruments.
It would indeed but as I said - you have unrealistic expectations about
what these sources should tell us. They are not going to list every
conceivable option.
You seem to read my mind, you should better read my words.
It seems that the guitar was used for accompaniment in different ways,
for different uses, in different genres, and probably at different
times.
Surprise, surprise! Isn't that so of everything else?
I'm glad that it was all so obvious. However, when I listen to ensemble
performances including the guitar it seems that these things are not
generally accepted (nor generally understood?).
Corbetta has
chosen for
battuto to survive in the ensemble. But in harmonically more complex
situations,
like at the last bars of p 89, he changes over to plucking,
He does so for just one bar.
He does this in many places. What's the point?
In an ensemble with bowed strings, with figures
implying more
intricate voice-leading (the guitar playing along with the bowed
bass??), this method
would be far from optimal, compared to keyboard or theorbo.
Maybe it would - but that doesn't mean that he didn't play it like that or
that it is not meant to be played like that.
Did I say that? I'm interested in what is known of what they did. I wasn't
speaking of Corbetta but of continuo on the guitar in instrumental ensemble
with bowed strings. It seems far from optimal and I think we would need
unambiguous information from that time, to believe that it was then
considered to be a good option.
The continuous
battuto would have helped the guitar to be audible. However, even
Biagio Marini,
who was an accomplished composer, has made many mistakes with the
alfabeto.
So what's new?
I thought that it would be of interest to this list to know more
about this somewhat neglected source.
How do you know he added the alfabeto himself anyway? It
is unrealistic to assume that any of these books are 100% accurate.
Marini probably has inscribed the alfabeto to his Arie from 1622 himself. He
must have been very familiar with the guitar and it should be considered
possible that he was responsible for the alfabeto in his op 22 as well. As
Alex Dean has demonstrated in his dissertation there were often problems
with inscribing alfabeto into polyphonic works, like in Montesardo's and
Kapsberger's 2- and 3-part villanelle. Maybe this is what went wrong here as
well? It is often thought, in retrospective, that it should have been easy
to find the right chords to any piece. Alfabeto and counterpoint can be
difficult to reconcile.
the volume
of the tone will be small. Also in Grenerin's continuo to the
symphonies
there are many plucked textures, and accompanying with the guitar is
perhaps
not the most convincing of the available options.
You are right there - two violins would drown the guitar - which is why I
think you need another instrument. It may not be the most convincing
option but nevertheless Grenerin has suggested it as a option.
Grenerin could have had other reasons to present his guitar continuo. In the
end it's a guitar book and he
may have wanted to exhibit his competence with regard to basso continuo, to
add to an image of erudition.
It would still be possible to perform sonate such as Granata's capricci
with basso continuo on
the guitar, with the method of Sanz, Matteis or Grenerin, and
maybe that was
done occasionally, in the sphere of domestic music-making, by
guitarists
(guitarists-theorbists?) who were versed in music theory.
Maybe - but remember a lot of professional theorboists played the guitar
as well and were well versed in musical theory.
I don't see any contradiction; you just seem to repeat my words...
Lex
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