But I'm sure that many indicate the
use of lute, theorbo, organ or harpsichord. I have never come across the
guitar, except in Marini's op 22. I would love to hear if anyone knows of
other examples.
Even if you had not found a single source which specifically
mentioned the guitar as one of the possible instruments to use for the
accompaniment you still can't prove that the guitar was never used in this
way. As I pointed out - what appears on the title page is simply what the
publisher though appropriate. In Gary's list only one source mentioned the
angelique and another the
pandora. That doesn't mean that no-one ever accompanied any of the other
songs with these instruments. Their repertoire would have been very
limited if they did. The instruments mentioned on the title page are just
the most obvious.
I don't think that I referred here to any alfabeto songbook in relation to
Grenerin (???).
Perhaps not specifically Grenerin but you seemed imply that the practice of
accompanying with a single instrument reflected in the songbooks some how
indicated that this was also standard practice with instrumental music too.
Of course this is a very different repertoire, but Grenerin himself speaks
of 'songs with accompaniment of the guitar', and not of 'songs with the
accompaniment of the guitar and theorbo' or anything.
You take everything so literally and in such a pedantic way. You seem to
think that because Grenerin has not written a lengthy preface covering every
conceivable aspect of how the pieces could be played, you can interpret
what
he says in the narrowest possible way. It would be nice if he had but that
is not the way things work even today. Players are free to make their own
decisions. He may not have mentioned the theorbo in the introduction but
he has at the beginning of the pieces themselves. How can you be sure that
every
player who read this instruction would have known for certain that the
theorbo was an alternative and not to be played together with the guitar?
Corbetta's may be one of the very rare examples in which a realized guitar
part in mixed battuto pizzicato style is provided. The continuo line may
have been there for alternative accompaniment.
How do you know? He has not said so. I think that all he says is "la
mesme en musique" at the beginning of the relevant pieces. Grenerin's
accompaniments are in a similar mixed style as are Carre's consort pieces.
Don't get me wrong, I think that Corbetta's songs would perhaps be better
off with an extra continuo instrument, because of the force majeure of the
vocal ensemble.
The same is true of Grenerin's pieces. 2 violins in the sinfonies and up
to 4 voices in the vocal pieces. To be effective in performance they would
need more than a single guitar to support them. Quite different from
accompanying someone singing.
> But the example of Corbetta is exceptional.
Not really. As the most illustrious guitarist of his time, what he has
provided here is probably typical of what others did.
We should perhaps not generalize Corbetta's style to playing basso
continuo in a repertoire with solo instruments. The plucked sections would
be considerably softer and therefore the texture will be really
unbalanced.
That's why you need other instruments to back you up.
the information you need. This may be the reason why Corbetta has written
the guitar part in tablature, and not just directed the player to his
basso continuo instructions, to realize his own accompaniment.
That's just more idle speculation - to fit your theories.
> I would say that is a well-considered opinion.
How many of these pieces have you actually played? How often do you play
chamber music of this period with other instrumentalists? Do you actually
play the theorbo and work as a continuo player? I wasn't aware that you
did.
I wonder why you are so anxious to prove that when accompanying the guitar
was never supported by another instrument. Isn't it all part of your
mission to prove that it was always "Bordones as usual". With another
instrument to provide the bass line bordones would not be so necessary.
But even with them the guitar is simply not capable of providing a
satisfactory bass line for ensemble music like that of Grenerin and
Corbetta.
I spoke of the paucity of sources. I know there is a small number of
pictures of guitars and other instruments, but, as you say, we don't
really know what was played.
The same is true of illustrations of other groups of instruments.
Monica
Grenerin could have had other reasons to present his guitar continuo. In
the end it's a guitar book and he
may have wanted to exhibit his competence with regard to basso continuo,
to add to an image of erudition.
That's just idle speculation. Since he was a professional theorbo
player
and wrote a tutor for theorbo/lute accompaniment I think we can take his
competance for granted.
But did his guitarist/customers also know this?
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