I should clarify that the straight-to-A transcriptions work best for me in music that is most workable in that tuning. I find it pretty satisfactory for de Visee, Guerau, etc. Ironically, the one perhaps most poorly served by non-reentrant notation, Sanz, is perhaps the most commonly abused by it. I suppose we should blame Segovia.
I suppose the issue is that actual-pitch transcriptions of music written to reentrant tuning are of potential use to characters like Respighi or academics who don't play the instruments in question, but of little use to those who play...and it seems to me that characters like Respighi are relatively rare. ...And those who play the instruments in question almost universally take the time to learn how to use the tablature, which is often more clear regarding reentrant tunings. So, I guess there is an academic purpose to such transcriptions, but the audience to benefit most is very limited, and those transcriptions are of limited use in performance. I seem to recall that Strizich actually recommended putting a stock b string on the modern guitar where the A used to be and tuning that string to a. Frankly, my modern guitars get more regular use in post-reentrant music, and dedicating any instrument to such a scheme isn't practical for me. Staff notation is really a rather linear scheme. It gets too messy in trying to represent music where pitch and the sequence of pitches is more ambiguous than accommodated by strictly linear, like reentrant tuning or octave strings. ...But the two of you chatting with me here know all this as well as anybody. Best, Eugene ________________________________________ From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of Monica Hall [mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 9:01 AM To: Martyn Hodgson Cc: Vihuelalist Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar? First of all - don't you think that some academics at least ought to be interested in the 5-course guitar repertoire? Frankly I think they should be and indeed some of them are. After all it has some bearing on other aspects of 17th century music e.g. music for lute and keyboard and continuo playing. I don't think a ghetto mentality does us any favours. Secondly - I think that it is unhelpful and misleading to transcribe 5-course guitar music as if the 4th and 5th courses were always in the lower octave. It gives completely the wrong idea about how the music really sounds and is one reason why even people who play the 5-course guitar don't appreciate the significance of re-entrant tunings and the re-entrant effect. Thirdly - when I did my dissertation on Murcia I did my transcriptions just as you suggest and two of my examiners - both eminent professors of music just couldn't get their heads around the idea that a lot of the notes really sounded an octave higher. Their re-action was "The music is rubbish isn't it?" Fortunately the third examiner was a guitarist... I have been doing a lot of transcriptions for a project recently and what I find helpful is to use different shaped note heads for notes on the 4th and 5th courses or do them a different colour when it is necessary to highlight them. Strizich may not have had that option but I still think his original transcription is very useful. As ever Monica ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martyn Hodgson" <hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk> To: "EugeneBraig" <brai...@osu.edu> Cc: "Vihuela Dmth" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 9:40 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar? > > Dear Eugene, > > I also find Strizich more complicated than necessary and really only > useful for academics interested in the period guitar who don't actually > play the instrument - are there any? > > And I agree with what you're saying below: ie to transcribe the > tablature into staff notation by pretending that the 4th and 5th > courses have both strings at the lower octave. This way there's much > less room for ambiguity and the music will sound different depending on > which particular tuning arrangement an individual player chooses to > employ - in fact, a sort of staff notation tablature.... > > regards, > > Martyn > --- On Wed, 21/11/12, Braig, Eugene <brai...@osu.edu> wrote: > > From: Braig, Eugene <brai...@osu.edu> > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar? > To: "Monica Hall" <mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> > Cc: "Vihuelalist" <vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Date: Wednesday, 21 November, 2012, 21:18 > > Indeed. I'm in the day job office and can't refer directly, but I seem > to remember spots/chords where it's not clear to which course/string > the symbol applied. Feel free to correct me if this is not the case. > Strizich is a somewhat useful...but also a somewhat odd effort. > Personally, I feel de Visee is one of those few 5-course characters who > loses almost nothing in use of the low A throughout. If transcribing > de Visee to modern notation, I'd almost rather assume a typical modern > instrument, with notes along the fifth notated as though they are along > an A, as Grimes did in his guitar transcriptions for good ol' Mel Bay, > de Visee included. > Best, > Eugene > -----Original Message----- > From: [1]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > [mailto:[2]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Monica Hall > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 3:39 PM > To: Braig, Eugene > Cc: Vihuelalist > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar? > Well - Strizich does indicate which course the notes are on with a > little figure in a circle below the stave but you need a magnifying > glass to read them. e.g. in the first bar the c is played on the 5th > course and the a on > the 3rd. He also puts in zeros to indicate open courses e.g. on line > 3 in > the third bar the zeros over the a and b natural indicate that they are > played on the open 5th and 2nd courses. > It does highlight how difficult it is to transcribe baroque guitar > music coherantly. > Monica > Monica > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Braig, Eugene" <[3]brai...@osu.edu> > To: "Vihuelalist" <[4]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 7:41 PM > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar? > >A little late to this chat, but I find the Strizich transcription a > bit > >unwieldy in notating notes along the reentrant a at pitch. It's just > hard > >to know whether notes in the relevant range belong along the a, g, or > b > >string. > > > > Best, > > Eugene > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [5]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > [mailto:[6]lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On > > Behalf Of Monica Hall > > Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 2:33 PM > > To: [7]ar...@student.matnat.uio.no > > Cc: Vihuelalist > > Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar? > > > > A transcription of it is also included in Robert Strizich's edition > of De > > Visee's complete works published by Heugel in1969. > > > > Monica > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <[8]ar...@student.matnat.uio.no> > > To: "Monica Hall" <[9]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk> > > Cc: "Arto Wikla" <[10]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi>; "Vihuelalist" > > <[11]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> > > Sent: Sunday, November 11, 2012 5:21 PM > > Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the > guitar? > > > > > >> It has also been recorded by Rafael Andia. But I don't really like > the > >> recording... > >> > >> mvh > >> Are > >> > >>> Dear Arto > >>> > >>> There is a guitar version of this chaconne - in D minor - in the > huge > >>> manuscript F.Pn Res. F. 844. It is on p.237. > >>> > >>> Someone - Stuart I think - pointed out that you can download an > image of > >>> the > >>> whole of this ms. from the Bib. Nat. site. > >>> > >>> Regards > >>> > >>> Monica > >>> > >>> > >>> ----- Original Message ----- > >>> From: "Arto Wikla" <[12]wi...@cs.helsinki.fi> > >>> To: "Vihuelalist" <[13]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu> > >>> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 9:22 PM > >>> Subject: [VIHUELA] de Visee Chaconne in a minor to the guitar? > >>> > >>> > >>>> Dear "flat back" lutenists, > >>>> > >>>> My try on de Visee's Chaconne in A minor is - as I told - is in > >>>> > >>>>> [14]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYU&feature=youtu.be > >>>>> [15]http://vimeo.com/53172045 > >>>> > >>>> As I said, there is the original(?) theorbo version of this > d-minor > >>>> lute > >>>> version, but I have a strong memory image that there is also a > version > >>>> to the 5 course guitar of this Chaconne. Is it there? Monica? > Other > >>>> specialists? > >>>> > >>>> best, > >>>> > >>>> Arto > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> To get on or off this list see list information at > >>>> [16]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > References > > 1. > http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > 2. > http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > 3. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=brai...@osu.edu > 4. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu > 5. > http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > 6. > http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu > 7. > http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ar...@student.matnat.uio.no > 8. > http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=ar...@student.matnat.uio.no > 9. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk > 10. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wi...@cs.helsinki.fi > 11. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu > 12. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=wi...@cs.helsinki.fi > 13. http://us.mc817.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu > 14. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqHHPeLMNYU&feature=youtu.be > 15. http://vimeo.com/53172045 > 16. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >
