Patrick,
As it was I whom started the thread I shall answer as follows…
Apple's official online policy for App Store purchases is that once
completed they are none refundable and all purchases are final.
There are no exemptions listed and its pretty much a catch all, once
you've pressed buy, entered your password and pressed OK, you're done,
that's it, no money back and importantly especially for Voice Over
users,
no guarantee…
What I am lobbying for, and the call to arms if you will, is for us
together as a community to tell Apple that this policy puts our
community
uniquely at a disadvantage.
We cannot look at the screen shots, almost never is there a review by a
Voice Over user pointing out whether or not the app is accessible or
not,
where there is, how would you find that single review amongst many
others… Often App developers are unaware of our needs, the tools Apple
provide to resolve those and link up with their accessibility API's
which
provide features like Voice Over to operate.
Apple themselves make no effort to point these features out to
developers, they do not screen apps submitted to them for compliance,
they offer no incentive to, or not to, comply with their standards, and
finally, they offer us the user no way of simply flagging an app in an
easy to follow and find manner that an app has been certified by our
community as functional.
Given all of the above, I believe it right and proper that Apple accept
that occasionally we will purchase an app and it will not function as
intended by the developer for us, and as such, we aught to be entitled
to
our money back.
That's it, in a nut shell, no bells, no whistles, no credibility check,
plain simple language that I hope covers my specific grievance in one.
Whilst some have pointed out is all this necessary for the odd dollar
here and there, I suppose it comes down to how many apps you buy and at
what cost they are.
I personally buy 5 or so a week, granted most of these are low cost,
but
the app that specifically caused me to write to them was £35 about
US$50.
and I consider this worthy of my money back.
This aside, no-one should be made to pay money for something they
cannot
use, no matter the amount.
Hope that this clears things up
Regards,
Neil Barnfather
Talks List Administrator
Twitter @neilbarnfather
TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an
Apple
iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your
accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
URL: - www.talknav.com
e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com
Phone: - +44 844 999 4199
On 11 Sep 2013, at 20:11, Patrick Neazer <vantagepoint1...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Hello Neil, Joseph, and all:
I have been following this thread since its inception and I must
confess
I am a bit confused by the arc of the conversation. It began with a
judgement pertaining to a policy which may or may not exist addressing
the refund of money for app purchases. then, a turn was taken to
patronizing activity or not. then there was an appeal to the
upstanding
credentials of an individual and then … well … I lost the trail.
I am not attempting to take sides or a stand. I am truly attempting to
understand what is actually occurring and what the call to action is.
so, in an attempt to clarify my obvious unclear view here is my
question … does Apple have a stated policy or procedure which is
clearly
stated and viewable by the public governing refunds for app purchases
and does there policy outline any unique exemptions based on pick the
criteria of choice? If that information could be presented as quickly
as
links to write to apple requesting policy changes and adaptations to
business practices that would go a long way I believe to clearing up
my
apparent confusion and sharpening the discussion in the minds of other
members of the community who may be experiencing the same confusion I
am
experiencing. Of course, I may be the only one confused and if so,
anyone reading this whom has been following the thread is free to
disregard anything written above.
Thank you to anyone who reads this and responds in a constructive
manner
and high fives to all those who take up the mantle of improving the
tools which make the lives of persons with disabilities easier to
navigate.
Take good care and I wish you enough.
Patrick
On Sep 11, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Joseph FreeTech
<joseph.freet...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Well, the suggestion I posted has nothing to do with you personally.
<Smile>. it's a general, unbiased suggestion, and had anyone else
made
it, I
would have suggested the same thing. It was another lister who turned
this
into a bit of an ad hominem discussion.
Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Barnfather - TalkNav" <for...@talknav.com>
To: <viphone@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: Apple App Store & Refunds for inaccessible Apps
Joseph,
As Sieghard has said, I'm not one for such things, and have been a
positive
advocate of our community online and off line for many, many years
now…
I
would recommend that you check out my web-site; neilbarnfather.com
for
some
information and this might explain a little more about myself and my
work.
Regards,
Neil Barnfather
Talks List Administrator
Twitter @neilbarnfather
TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an
Apple
iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your
accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
URL: - www.talknav.com
e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com
Phone: - +44 844 999 4199
On 11 Sep 2013, at 17:13, Joseph FreeTech <joseph.freet...@gmail.com>
wrote:
Very smart suggestion. Let's say we all jump on this bandwagon (once
again),
and in the end we discover that whoever the original person this
happened
to
was very nasty and demanding to the Apple customer service
employees;
hence
the poor service. We're all going to be very embarrassed and not
likely to
take this issue up again in the future. We first need proof of a
pattern
of
poor service and not just some single person's complaint.
Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisa belville" <missktlab1...@frontier.com>
To: <viphone@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: Apple App Store & Refunds for inaccessible Apps
Hi. Is there any way you could share a letter showing how the Apple
people
were patronizing/unhelpful in this regard? I understand the
frustration
of
not getting a refund for something inaccessible and how a clueless
rep
makes
this all the more annoying, but IMO there's a difference between
politely/patiently conveying a policy and being patronizing.
Obviously,
you
can take out any names in this letter, but it would be good to see
an
example of this attitude. Could it possibly be this particular
rep's
issue
and not necessarily one of Apple itself? I'm referring to the
patronizing/unsympathetic attitude and not the policy itself.
Lisa
There is a fine line between genius and insanity and that difference
is a
paycheck!
Lisa Belville
missktlab1...@frontier.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Barnfather - TalkNav" <for...@talknav.com>
To: <macvisionar...@googlegroups.com>; <viphone@googlegroups.com>;
"The
Accessible Phones Discussion List" <blindpho...@mosenexplosion.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:58 AM
Subject: Apple App Store & Refunds for inaccessible Apps
The below should prove a concern to all Apple accessibility feature
users,
and I would urge as many of you who can do so, to please write to
Apple
yourselves to express your concern along the same lines where
possible…
(accessibil...@apple.com).
For years now Apple has led the way in accessibility standards and
application of methods in interacting with all of its product range.
Internationally within many disability arenas Apple is celebrated as
the
defacto standard and is widely acknowledged as users preferred
platform
for
persons with accessibility issues.
Whether or not the App Store had an unofficial policy towards
customers
with
accessibility needs or not, is unknown to me. What I am aware of is
that
where I've bought Apps which turn out not to be accessible, Apple
App
Store
has always been prompt to refund the purchase immediately without
question.
Since Apple do not enforce accessibility standards, nor in anyway
whatsoever
offer a method of a disabled user to know whether or not an App is,
or
is
not, accessible in advance of purchase, this seemed to be a most
reasonable
compromise.
However, in correspondence over the past week with Apple iTunes
support
staff via e-mail in relation to an App I have purchased which is
inaccessible, Apple's stance has been both surprising and frankly
highly
dismissive of our needs and vulnerability when using Apple's App
Store.
I have been point blank refused a refund upon this occasion, with
staff
suggesting that I could leave a review for the App which others
could
read,
and or write to the developer. Whilst I understand that the second
suggestion may illicit a positive response, and sometimes it does…
In
many
instances developers haven't even heard of Voice Over let alone
understand
what it does and how they aught to address compliance with Apple's
Accessibility API's.
Of course, the best approach would be for Apple to make compliance
with
its
Accessibility API's a requirement for all new Apps being approved to
the
App
Store, indeed a range of other options would also work, such as; a
discount
on the 30% cut that Apple takes for compliant Apps, a penalty higher
fee
(35% etc) for those that do not comply and perhaps indicating with a
marker
in the App store which Apps do meet the requirements.
Since Apple do none of these, despite so publicly professing to up
holding
and supporting some of the most well implemented accessibility
innovation
and support seen in the industry, it seemed like a fair compromise
that
Apple voluntarily and without complication offered a refund to
customers
who
had accessibility needs where an App proved to be inaccessible.
The situation now, though is that Apple is refusing in an
uncompromising
and
frankly shocking way to refund such purchases, with patronising and
unsympathetic suggestions as to how we, as blind users, go about
reviewing
Apps etc.
I would ask that Apple firstly developed a robust policy in this
regard,
and
secondly, reviews options as to improving the compliance uptake of
developers within their iOS and Mac App Stores.
So that I can convey your response to the ViPhone, Macvisionaries
and
other
Apple Accessibility user forums promptly, I would sincerely
appreciate
your
earliest feedback and response on this issue.
Yours kindly.
Regards,
Neil Barnfather
http://www.NeilBarnfather.com
Regards,
Neil Barnfather
Talks List Administrator
Twitter @neilbarnfather
TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an
Apple
iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your
accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit
www.talknav.com
URL: - www.talknav.com
e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com
Phone: - +44 844 999 4199
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