Horace, Great Reply! Thank You Fran -----Original Message----- From: Horace Heffner [mailto:hheff...@mtaonline.net] Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2009 8:10 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Hydrino represents Lorentz contraction in the opposite direction from event horizon
On Aug 18, 2009, at 12:23 PM, Roarty, Francis X wrote: > Horace, > QED supporters What QED supporters? > don't like I don't think it is a matter of taste or value judgement. It's about precision in communication. > when I refer to vacuum fluctuations > which are also known as virtual particles but yet they do use virtual > photons in their theories. The Casimir force is about virtual photons according to all I've read. It has nothing to do with particle pair creation, which by comparison is extremely rare. > I went to Wikipedia to see if there is any > defined frequency spectrum for virtual particles but they indicated > that > if the particle This is a good example of the problem with imprecise communication. When you say particle people think in terms of electrons, protons, quarks, etc. These things do have wavelengths, but the concept of a zero point field spectrum for them is uncommon to say the least. Virtual photons, OTOH, have both a particle and wave characteristics just like hadrons, leptons, etc, but their ubiquitous and dense nature, as well as their very wave-like nature, lends itself to discussion of the energy spectrum of the zero point field. Technically, virtual photons can be called "vacuum fluctuations". However, I think they are actually more the *cause* of vacuum pair production, as they provide the virtual pair creation energy. In any case, the zero point field (ZPF) consists of a huge isotropic energy flow of virtual photons having a cubic energy distribution. I think it is appropriate to call the ZPF a field because it consists of the messenger particles (now an appropriate use of "particle" due to the implied Feynman diagram concepts) which comprise the electromagnetic field, at least the near field. > last long enough to actually be detected it is no longer > virtual! Again, that is a reference to particle pair production. Virtual particle pairs are limited to their Heisenberg lifetime. To survive longer they must be given enough energy to create their mass. > What is consensus here? Is it just the infinite sea of vacuum > fluctuations they object to No. However the Casimir force is limited to virtual photon effects, or in other models, van der Waals force effects. It is not due to vacuum fluctuations in general, at least I've never seen anyone attribute the effect to that. > and they are ok with virtual particles > between matter, messengers or epo kind of thing. > Regards > Fran One problem here is that vocabulary can mean different things depending on the context. Sometimes when you use a word you have to define the context in which it is used. For example, within some contexts (GR) gravity is a result of space-time curvature, so there is no gravity messenger particle, while within some theories, virtual photon pressure accounts for gravity, and others gravity is a true force, with its own messenger - the graviton. You have to be very clear about the context in which you speak when you say something affects "gravity", or vice versa. Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/