Steven wrote on 12-21-10: Jed recently brought up some interesting issues related to how will a modern society manage to "spread-the-wealth" equitably when presumably robots perform most of the labor.
Jed Rothwell wrote on 12-21-10: The topic of human labor being rendered obsolete by robots has come up here from time to time. I discovered a web site and book about this by someone named Martin Ford: http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com/LIGHTSTUNNEL.PDF Ford founded a silicon valley software development company, so he knows a thing or two about computers and robots ... Steven wrote on 12-21-10: I think the author Jed refers to is probably spot-on when he brings up the rather unsettling prediction that a free market (as it is currently understood and practiced) is likely to cease to function if robotics continue to assume much of the labor ... Personally, I would like to see the day come where our current monetary system might be turned upside down in a major fundamental way ... Hi All, 12-21-10 The U.S. monetary system has been turned upside down several times in the past, eliciting forceful responses. The fundemental bone of contention is "Should our currency be based on debt, with interest often being paid to money lenders (our current system) or to holders of 'bank notes,' or should our currency be based on something besides debt?" Jefferson argued forcefully against debt. Hamilton was all for debt. I have not yet read Ron Paul's book "End The Fed" but it won't be long before interest on the national debt is the largest budget item, exceeding military expenditures and transferring enormous wealth from the taxpayers to the money lenders. Jack Smith Jed Rothwell wrote on 12-21-10: The topic of human labor being rendered obsolete by robots has come up here from time to time. I discovered a web site and book about this by someone named Martin Ford: http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com http://www.thelightsinthetunnel.com/LIGHTSTUNNEL.PDF Ford founded a silicon valley software development company, so he knows a thing or two about computers and robots ... He has given a lot of thought to the future of economics in a world in which most human labor is worth nothing. Quote from book: "The reality is that the free market economy, as we understand it today, simply cannot work without a viable labor market. Jobs are the primary mechanism through which incomeand, therefore, purchasing poweris distributed to the people who consume everything the economy produces. If at some point, machines are likely to permanently take over a great deal of the work now performed by human beings, then that will be a threat to the very foundation of our economic system. This is not something that will just work itself out." He makes a variety of level-headed suggestions regarding the tax system, outsourcing and economic policy. In essence, he wants a system in which work is optional. People can work if they want, and they can become as wealthy as they are able, because the free market remains, but at the same time, everyone is automatically given enough money to live a decent middle-class life and get as much education as he or she wants. This scheme is more or less what I and others here have suggested we will need to implement sometime in the future. The book is carefully thought out but it could have used a good editor. The metaphor in the first chapter about lights in a tunnel (and the title of the book) seems superfluous to me. Here's a good quote from book, p. 220, in the Q&A section: "[OBJECTION TO THESIS] If technology resulted in unemployment, everyone would already be out of a job because technological progress has been going on for hundreds of years. [REBUTTAL] This really just amounts to saying "it hasn't happened yet, so it will never happen." History has proven time and again that, where technology is concerned, something can be impossible since the dawn of civilization and then suddenly, in the blink of an eye, become possible. Revolutionary technologies, such as the airplane and nuclear power, where all dismissed as being impossible even by preeminent scientists who were involved in the research that led to their development." Today, most of us accept that technology will continue to advance and produce things that we might currently view as impossible. However, we still think too narrowly. We accept that there will be new technologies, new products and new industries, but most of us are not prepared to accept that all this will change the basic economic rules that we take for granted. But why wouldn't that be the case? Is there a fundamental reason why accelerating technology should impact nearly every aspect of our lives -- but not impact the way the economy works? Harry wrote on 12-21-10: An unconditional basic movement is gaining traction in Germany and Brazil. Link to 6 min. trailer with English subtitles to a movie about Bedingungsloses Grundeinkommen(unconditional basic income) http://dotsub.com/view/1689fc6f-bade-4482-8829-04c0635f4731 The Basic Income Earth Network: http://www.basicincome.org/bien A Journal on Basic Income: http://www.bepress.com/bis/ Basic Income signed into law in Brazil in 2004 but not implemented: http://www.nodo50.org/redrentabasica/textos/index.php?x=255 Small scale Basic Income experiment in Brazil: http://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/BIG-QUATINGA-VELHO/117066824987781?v=info Larger Scale Basic Income experiment recently completed in Nambia: http://www.bignam.org/ Article: Basic Income Grants Alleviate Poverty in Namibia: http://www.policyinnovations.org/ideas/briefings/data/000163 --------------- Jack writes on 12-21-10: Here's a brief history of the contention between the Hamiltonians and the Jeffersonians: 1833 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bank_of_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson President Andrew Jackson succeeds in destroying the Second Bank of the United States by withdrawing U.S. funds in 1833. Skull and Bones Society formed at Yale. William Huntington Russell founded the Order of Skull & Bones in 1832 after he returned from studies in Germany. The Russell family's business - Russell & Co. - was the premier American opium shipper and the third largest in the world. In the 1830s, opium became the world's largest commercial commodity, and was the foundation of great wealth with the smuggling of opium into China. Many of the fortunate sons of Russell & Co. families were sent to Yale and were "tapped" into the Order of Skull & Bones. January 30, 1835 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Jackson#Attack_and_ assassination_attempt ``Aassassination attempt on President Andrew Jackson What is believed to be the first attempt to [murder] a sitting President of the United States occurred just outside the United States Capitol Building ...'' April 12, 1861 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Sumter The Civil War began when General Beauregard, in command of the provisional Confederate forces at Charleston, South Carolina, opened fire on Fort Sumter. 1862 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Note Bankers offered loans to the Lincoln government at a minimum 24 percent interest. So the Legal Tender Act of 1862 authorized the "greenback," a fiat paper currency that was issued directly into circulation by the United States Department of the Treasury. The London Times printed the following: "If that mischievous financial policy, which had its origin in the North American Republic, should become [established], then that Government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off debts and be without a debt. It will have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become prosperous beyond precedent in the history of the civilized governments of the world. The brains and the wealth of all countries will go to North America. That government must be destroyed, or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe." (Hazard Circular - London Times 1865) April 15, 1865 President Abraham Lincoln is murdered. 1913: Federal Reserve System was created. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_Reserve_System The Federal Reserve System was created in 1913 by the enactment of the Federal Reserve Act. It consists of twelve regional Federal Reserve Banks http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article7920.html ``Thomas Jefferson warned 200 hundred years ago that if private bankers were allowed to issue America 's money, indebtedness, foreclosure and suffering would follow. Yet, in 1913, private bankers gained control over America's money by the passage of the Federal Reserve Act.'' http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Who_owns_the_federal_reserve_bank ``Who owns the federal reserve bank[s]? That is a complicated question ... [In other words, "who knows?"] It is historic fact that the plan for the Federal Reserve was created by banking interests in great secrecy at Jekyl Island in 1910 ... The operations of the Federal Reserve are secret, have no active congressional oversight, and are not audited by the GAO or the IRS ...'' June 4, 1963 John F. Kennedy signed Executive Order 11110 ... which gave Kennedy, as President of the United States, [authority] to print United States Treasury Notes/ November 22, 1963, John F. Kennedy murdered Only one day after Kennedy's assassination, all the United States notes which Kennedy had issued, were called out of circulation. Commentator 1 wrote on 12-31-08: ``In an effort to paralyze the U. S. federal government, just three presidents, Reagan and the Bushes, have incurred most of our cureent $11 trillion national debt -- this was not accident or stupidity; it was deliberate policy. Paying interest on this debt as it continues to grow should be repugnant to all of us -- what a waste of our tax dollars. So, here is a proposal in the tradition of President Abraham Lincoln: Immediately pay off the entire U. S. debt with electronic (and printed when necessary) U. S. Treasury bills, "electronic greenbacks." These treasury notes will pay no interest; and will be "stored" in the U. S. Treasury until the debt-holders give the U. S. Treasury their account numbers for "electronic greenback" direct deposit. All interest payments on notes issued by the Federal Reserve will be banned by law and immediately cease. The new greenbacks will be legal tender in the U. S. and must be accepted abroad by U. S. agencies, contractors, and banks chartered in the U. S. no matter where they are operating.''
