Found this post in my outbox, it wasn't sent.
At 06:46 PM 8/17/2012, Axil Axil wrote:
The production of neutrons may well be avoidable
if the reaction is properly designed. As a
model, Rossi has been purifying his reaction for
more than a year. My guess is that the use of
Deuterium is conducive to neutron production.
Aw, Axil, you should know better. The FPHE
doesn't produce neutrons to any significant
amount. That's the experimental evidence. The
FPHE uses deuterium, PdD. The subject report is a
different approach, only roughly analogous to the FPHE. I.e., TiD.
We have no evidence for neutrons with Rossi's
approach. And it's not clear what evidence we have for neutrons from TiD.
The post pointed to papers that allege neutron production from TiD:
1. Menlove, H.O., et al. Reproducible neutron
emission measurements from Ti metal in
pressurized D2 gas. in Anomalous Nuclear Effects
in Deuterium/Solid Systems, "AIP Conference
Proceedings 228". 1990. Brigham Young Univ.,
Provo, UT: American Institute of Physics, New York. p. 287.
2. Menlove, H.O. High-sensitivity measurements
of neutron emission from Ti metal in pressurized
D2 gas. in The First Annual Conference on Cold
Fusion. 1990. University of Utah Research Park,
Salt Lake City, Utah: National Cold Fusion Institute. p. 250.
3. Menlove, H.O. and M.C. Miller, Neutron-burst
detectors for cold-fusion experiments. Nucl.
Instr. Methods Phys. Res. A, 1990. 299: p. 10.
4. Menlove, H.O., et al., Measurement of neutron
emission from Ti and Pd in pressurized D2 gas
and D2O electrolysis cells. J. Fusion Energy, 1990. 9(4): p. 495.
5. Menlove, H.O., et al., The measurement of
neutron emission from Ti plus D2 gas. J. Fusion Energy, 1990. 9: p. 215.
6. Mengoli, G., et al. Tritium and neutron
emission in conventional and contact glow
discharge electrolysis of D2O at Pd and Ti
cathodes. in Second Annual Conference on Cold
Fusion, "The Science of Cold Fusion". 1991.
Como, Italy: Societa Italiana di Fisica, Bologna, Italy. p. 65.
7. Seeliger, D., et al. Evidence of neutron
emission from a titanium deuterium system. in
Second Annual Conference on Cold Fusion, "The
Science of Cold Fusion". 1991. Como, Italy:
Societa Italiana di Fisica, Bologna, Italy. p. 175.
I probably have some of these papers here, but I
haven't looked. Okay, okay, so you twisted my
arm. Menlove published some papers in J. Fusion
Energy. So I have sources 3, 4 and 5.
None of Seeliger's papers are available through
download from lenr-canr.org. Menlove source 1 is available from lenr-canr.org
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MenloveHOreproducib.pdf
Source 2 is not, nor is Mengoli's paper avaiable.
However, there is a 1991 paper from Menlove available:
http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/MenloveHOlowbackgro.pdf
That is after the other sources, so it might be
more inclusive. I don't have time to read these today.
However, from the last Menlove paper (1991):
A wide variety of neutron detector systems have
been used at various research facilities
to search for anomalous neutron emission from
deuterated metals. Some of these detector
systems are summarized here together with
possible sources of spurious signals from
electronic noise. During the past two years, we
have performed experiments to measure
neutron emission from pressurized D2 gas mixed
with various forms of titanium metal
chips and sponge. Details concerning the neutron
detectors, experimental procedures, and
results have been reported previously. Our
recent experiments have focused on increasing
the low-level neutron emission and finding a way
to trigger the emission. To improve our
detection sensitivity, we have increased the
shielding in our counting laboratory, changed
to low-background 3He tubes, and set up
additional detector systems in deep underground
counting stations. This report is an update on this experimental work.
And from the summary:
Our overall detector efficiencies range from 20%
to 44% for the four separate detector systems
that are operating in parallel experiments. Two
of the detector systems are segmented to provide
separate signal outputs for a consistency check
on the origin of the signals. Our coincidence
background depends on the detector and shielding
location and ranges from 2 counts/h to less
than 0.5 counts/wk in the deep mine locations.
Only two of the 19 samples emitted excess
neutrons during the current series of experiments;
however, the excess yields were observed in
three independent detector systems (detectors 1, 2,
and 4). The neutron yield from sample DD-17 in
detector 1 was several orders of magnitude
above the control-run background levels, and the
yield was the largest that we have observed
during two years of experiments. This result was
obtained in the low-background underground
laboratory at Los Alamos.
Our search for a trigger mechanism for the
neutron emission has been unsuccessful and our
sample success rate is less now than it was one
year ago. We think that part of the reason for the
low success rate is that we have tried a large
variation in sample types and experimental
procedures. The number of experimental variables
far exceeds our capacity to investigate the
parameters.
From the text:
There are several days with excess neutron emission from
sample Ti-48 with the highest day having an
average yield of 1.12 counts/h and a statistical
significance of 3 รณ
To treat the recent report of 62M neutrons per
five minutes as if it were a rediscovery of this
old work, showing, at most, a little over one
neutron per hour, is highly misleading, it seems
from this quick examination. It is irritating
that people's time is wasted by this misrepresentation.
This came from a post here, I'm quoting:
On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 7:23 PM, Akira Shirakawa
<<mailto:shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com>shirakawa.ak...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 2012-08-18 01:11, Axil Axil wrote:
The hot fusion people and the nuclear physicist crowd will not believe
that LENR is real unless they see lots of neutrons; this is a good
political type experiment.
I have to bring some potentially bad news. I've
just been told that this Ti-D neutron claim is
for a hot fusion reaction based on fractofusion
that was discovered and replicated years ago.
See the following bibliography (I'm copying and
pasting from a private email, I haven't found these for myself):
And then followed the list of papers. Akira asked, then:
Is this really related to LENR? Why and how was it presented during ICCF-17?
Akira, I know you were *asking*, yet you
basically passed on a rumor that caused others to
make certain assumptions. You covered for whoever
sent you that "private mail." What they told you
was highly misleading. Consider that they have
egg on their face, and that some has splashed on
you.... You are responsible for what you post,
unless you can disclose the source, and even then....
You did add a disclaimer.... but this sequence
demonstrates how many readers at Vortex don't
actually read presented sources, but just react.
It's not surprising. People are like that! Me too, sometimes!
The question you asked about ICCF-17 remains
unanswered. It is *not* clear that the neutron
result is relevant to LENR, except that the
authors seem to claim so. We don't really have a
paper from them, just a few slides. If a paper
appears, that would be great. (I haven't read the
rest of the posts, maybe this has already come up.)
