A couple of us tried electrolysis with nickels in Borax today. No excess heat was observed. There are details here: http://pdxlenr.blogspot.com/2012/10/no-heating-observed-while-electrolyzing.html
Jeff On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 8:13 PM, Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> wrote: > You might try to erode the copper extrusions that erupt from the center of > the coin. > > These copper eruptions have been produced by repeated heating. Remove this > copper by etching the heat treated nickel in acid. > This etching should produce the micro holes that we are interested in. > > > Cheers: Axil > > On Sat, Oct 13, 2012 at 10:54 PM, David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com>wrote: > >> Hi Jack, >> >> I am likewise interested in your results. The circulation pump might >> be an idea that I should incorporate since I am very carefully placing my >> temperature probe at the same location for readings. On occasions I get >> data that seems out of place by a couple of degrees C which might be due to >> the lack of mixing. Most of the time my data falls within a degree of the >> trend line using Excel. >> >> Today, I can definitely tell that I am not getting excess heat from my >> heat treated nickel. I substitute a fresh one as a control with the same >> current and placement. Today, the data from both samples are very close >> together within 1 watt out of 20 watts of heating. In my control run, the >> untreated nickel actually displays the slightly higher reading. >> >> My experimental setup consists of a medium sized salad container from >> Kroger food market surrounded by Styrofoam bottom and walls with the top >> open. The electrolyte is maintained at approximately one half the height >> of my sample nickels. I use small alligator clips and leads to connect to >> the supply which is a laboratory quality one that can output up to 60 volts >> DC if required. The sodium carbonate electrolyte typically allows me to >> drive 2 amps of current into the device with a voltage drop of 10 to 11 >> volts. My electrolyte bath is operating at 45 C at that current level. >> >> I generally make a calibration run by varying the current from 1 amp to >> 2.5 amps and accurately measuring the supply voltage. This gives me a >> range of temperatures versus power input points that form a curve. I can >> detect whether or not a point is out of line fairly easily by its deviation >> from the curve. When the calibration is acting up, I make several >> additional test runs of an hour each to determine the most likely value. >> >> I allow the setup to run for approximately 1 hour for each point to >> ensure that the system has stabilized. >> >> My plans are to continue to test the heat treated sample for a number >> of additional hours before I try an alternate technique to modify the >> surface of this nickel or others. One interesting observation is that my >> torched and quenched nickel now looks very much like a copper penny in >> appearance. The surface coloration can not be wiped off with vigorous >> rubbing of a paper towel. The raised letters have a shiny copper look that >> does not exhibit any of the standard nickel shine. You would think that >> this is a large sized weathered penny by appearance although the normal >> nickel features are intact. >> >> As always, my test nickel is connected with leads to the negative >> terminal of the supply. A second nickel acts as my positive supply >> electrode. This is the configuration that should expose the test nickel to >> hydrogen by electrolysis. >> >> Dave >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jack Cole <jcol...@gmail.com> >> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> >> Sent: Sat, Oct 13, 2012 8:52 pm >> Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started >> >> Hi Dave, >> >> I will be interested to know your results. This evening, I started an >> experiment using my repeatedly-treated nickels (8) on a small thoriated >> tungsten rod. I'm using a penny connected to a chrome plated alligator >> clip for my anode (+). My last few runs seemed to show excess heat, but >> like you, I'm hesitant to make that claim without better measures and >> further experimenting. I was estimating heat loss by taking heat >> measurements of the bath after removing the electrodes to get the rate that >> the temperature of the bath was dropping. >> >> My current setup involves submerging the electrolytic cell in 1 gallon >> of water in a styrofoam minnow bucket. I have another 1 gallon of water in >> an identical minnow bucket to test temperature changes due to heat >> loss/gain from the environment. I will be taking measurements of voltage, >> current, temp of the water bath surrounding the electrolytic cell, and >> control cell for the next couple of hours. Tomorrow, I'll run all day and >> see what it can do over a longer period. I'm using borax for the >> electrolyte, and tracking the data in excel. The nickels have been treated >> at low current for 3 days as the cathode (after repeated heating with a >> torch and multiple prior experiments with the same set of nickels/tungsten). >> >> Monday, I should have a small submersible pump that I'll try in future >> experiments to keep the water surrounding the cell circulating. >> >> Jack >> >> On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 8:02 PM, David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com>wrote: >> >>> I have completed my electrolysis experiment using a standard issue >>> nickel with a second one at the positive electrode. My electrolyte is >>> sodium carbonate (Arm & Hammer washing soda) which does not foul up the >>> positive electrode as much as borax. For a short time it looked as though >>> I was observing excess heat after my test nickel had been loaded with >>> hydrogen for 40 plus hours. I performed a control and calibration run >>> which seemed to indicate that I could not prove any excess heating. >>> >>> My test fixture does not appear to be capable of precise temperature >>> measurement since it does not have a good stirring process and the control >>> of the electrolyte level is difficult to maintain. A positive result would >>> be too important of a determination for me to announce without better proof. >>> >>> For these reasons I decided to try another experiment. First, I took >>> the 40 plus hour nickel and heated it to red heat with a gas torch. The >>> nickel rapidly cooled off once the torch was removed so it was apparent >>> that a lot of excess heat was not being generated as a result of elevated >>> temperature. No flames appeared that could suggest that hydrogen was being >>> released so I decided to begin another procedure. >>> >>> I took the test nickel and heated it to a red hot state and >>> immediately dropped it into a water bath. This was repeated a total of 5 >>> times in an effort to generate surface cracks due to the stress of rapid >>> cooling. The main observation I noticed was that an oxide had formed upon >>> the surface which could not be removed by wiping. One side seemed to have >>> a thick brown oxide while the other exhibited less. I am not able to test >>> for the actual materials present, but that does not prevent me from >>> proceeded with my electrolysis of the nickel. >>> >>> The heat treated nickel is now undergoing electrolysis along with one >>> that is not so treated acting as the positive supply electrode. >>> >>> My first observations are that the brown oxide deposits have flaked >>> off to a degree, but not completely. This material is floating upon the >>> bath and I also found that the resistance associated with this coating does >>> not appear too large to prevent me from driving the current to 1 or 2 amps >>> as desired. I was surprised that it did not exhibit much if any additional >>> resistance as compared to the original sample. >>> >>> I did note that green flakes of material have shown up in the >>> electrolyte that I have not seen before when using sodium carbonate. This >>> is an interesting consequence of the heat treating as far as can be >>> determined. >>> >>> The experiment has now been running for around 6 hours and the bath >>> temperature has been recorded as well as the input power applied at several >>> times. I have been registering the results within an Excel file and chart >>> in an effort to reveal anything of interest. I have collected a fair >>> amount of data associated with the other experimental procedure using a >>> untreated set of nickels that is also charted. >>> >>> I will continue to run the experiment looking for any unusual behavior >>> or heating. >>> >>> Dave >>> >> >> >
