You should be able to find it at most grocery stores. You can get a couple of gallons inexpensively.
On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 12:11 PM, David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> wrote: > Hello Mark, > > I have been using regular tap water. Your question makes me reconsider > the alternatives. Where can I find a source for distilled water that is > readily available? > > I assumed that the large quantity of Borax or other electrolyte would > dominate the reaction and the water at my location is of excellent quality > and exhibits an extremely large impedance until the powders are added. > > Dave > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: MarkI-ZeroPoint <zeropo...@charter.net> > To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> > Sent: Fri, Oct 26, 2012 1:43 am > Subject: RE: [Vo]:New Experiment Started > > Dave, > Sorry if I missed it, but are you using tap water, or distilled/deionized > water? > -mark > > *From:* David Roberson [mailto:dlrober...@aol.com <dlrober...@aol.com?>] > *Sent:* Thursday, October 25, 2012 9:57 PM > *To:* vortex-l@eskimo.com > *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started > > That appears like a pretty good process for the nickel. Jack, I will > follow your procedure after I complete a couple of experiments. > > I tried something interesting today that I plan to investigate further. > I acted like a manual switch for a couple of nickels where I reversed the > DC current periodically to see how the coatings behaved. I let current > flow until the resistance reached about 50 ohms in one direction and then > reversed the current until the same value was seen in the other direction. > This procedure was carried out for about 5 cycles. Initially, a green > coating was deposited upon the positively connected nickel which was then > flaked off by the reverse current. A significant amount of green material > was deposited within my electrolyte due to the cyclic coating and flaking. > > The AC was then applied and I noticed that very little gas was escaping > from the electrodes even though a current of 1 to 2 amps was flowing. The > resistance remained low during the AC testing which is in process as I > write. The electrolyte evaporated twice to a level that had to be > replenish as typical. > > This post is a quick update. > > Dave > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chuck Sites <cbsit...@gmail.com> > To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> > Sent: Thu, Oct 25, 2012 11:33 pm > Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started > Jack, that is just about right. > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Jack Cole <jcol...@gmail.com> wrote: > Dear Dave, > > You wrote: > Chuck, have you given consideration to some process that might treat the > CuB2O3 or NiB2O3 differently so that the copper might be taken away from > the nickel surface selectively? It might be possible to selectively erode > the copper leaving NAE in large quantities. > > I think you can get this with the oxidization process with using a > nickel as the anode with DC for a couple of hours to form the green > oxidized copper. The green oxidized copper can then be burned off with a > torch. > > My approach has been to first use the nicked as an anode for 1 to 2 > hours. Burn off the oxidized copper with a torch. Then slow treat with > hydrogen as the cathode and low current DC for a few days. Then switch to > AC. > > With respect to the B2O3, I've found that most of this will burn off. > But I have some that simply melted into a transparent clear blob adhering > to some of the surfaces of the nickels. > > Take care, > Jack > > On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 2:10 PM, David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> > wrote: > Thanks Chuck, the experimentation has been going on now for a couple of > days and I did notice unusual behavior that I was not expecting. I > performed a small experiment using AC with new nickels that had not been > undergoing electrolysis at any time and saw that they did not show any of > the green coating that was so evident with DC. Instead, there was a jet > black coating being formed upon the nickels. Then, I applied DC to my cell > and a green coating began to form over top of the previous black coating > upon the nickel connected to the positive terminal. I allowed this process > to continue for a few hours and then scraped off the net coating to get a > orange copperish looking finish where the old coatings were. This finish > has a rough appearance. > > So far the bottom line is that AC drive behaves far differently than DC > drive in this system. I can definitely see boiling electrolyte > temperatures between the two nickels with AC drive while far fewer bubbles > of gas are released by the active mechanisms as compared to DC drive. With > AC, the effective resistance of the combination remains much lower than > with DC current. The high resistance appears to correspond with the > deposition of the green coating that follows DC current flow. > > My present transformer will not allow me to achieve the 100-140 volt > drive levels so that would have to be achieved by some other means. I have > a few ideas regarding the use of an adjustable transformer, but that would > be difficult to handle. I do not feel comfortable with direct connection > by metallic path to the AC mains. It would be too easy to become > electrocuted with one careless maneuver. > > My AC RMS voltage is 21 volts for these tests so the resistance must > remain less than 10 ohms between the terminals if I am to drive the system > with 2 amps of current. I am able to achieve this goal without too much > difficulty when the green coating is absent. I need to perform more > experimentation with this combination. > > The salts you suspect are interesting. Do you suspect that the normal > oxides of the nickel and copper are suppressed? Also, I am not aware of > any visual change to the surface of the nickel if hydrogen has entered. > Would anyone expect a color change or other indication when this happens? > > I would love to see the glow that Horace mentions and perhaps that day > will come when I figure a good way to drive the cell in a safe manner. It > is apparent that I will need to pre-charge the nickels before applying the > full voltage unless I want to melt my experiment. If I used my typical > resistance of 10 ohms and set the input AC to 100 volts RMS, I would > generate 1000 watts of power at a current of 10 amps. > > I wonder if the sparks I saw with the sodium carbonate were somehow > related to the glow mentioned by Horace. My results were correlated with > the open circuit voltage rising toward 50 volts as it attempted to maintain > the current at a constant level. The sparks suggest to me some form of > burning mechanism and I got a large dose of the vapor by accident once when > watching the phenomena too closely. It was a strong odor that I hope is > not carcinogenic. The smoke I breathed was definitely not water vapor. > > Chuck, have you given consideration to some process that might treat the > CuB2O3 or NiB2O3 differently so that the copper might be taken away from > the nickel surface selectively? It might be possible to selectively erode > the copper leaving NAE in large quantities. > > Dave > > P.S. AC in my posting is standard line frequency in the US which is 60 > hertz. > > -----Original Message----- > From: Chuck Sites <cbsit...@gmail.com> > To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> > Sent: Thu, Oct 25, 2012 12:02 pm > Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started > Good Luck with the new experiments David. I think you will see some > interesting effects. Regarding the sparks and light flashes, I ran across > a paper that describes an spark effect, but it was seen in the 100-140Volt > range. Horace Heffner describes it in his paper; > > http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/GlowExper.pdf > > It could be that the local electric potential is large enough that the > sparkle effect happens. > > Anyway, with the AC, do try the DC pre-charging. If there is a true > LENR effect, I would think this is one of the better ways of see it. The > pre-charging might allow coating of the cupronickel with B2O3 which Mile's > hints was one method of rapid LENR in his youtube video. In addition, as > Storm's has suggested, you might pre-fill the lattice dislocations. Once > the AC begins, hopefully you will see a robust heating effect. With AC, > you should see the Na2[B4O5(OH)4] oscillating back and forth, and swarms > of H+ push through the Cu-Ni B4O5(OH)4 surface. I found some old notes, > that indicated in DC, the green salts could be CuB2O3 and darker salts as > NiB2O3. See if you can spot a glow too. Maybe it's Cherenkov radiation. > > > Anyway, Have fun. It's been interesting to see how much > more bizarre this little experiment gets. > > Chuck > > > On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 8:54 PM, David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> > wrote: > It is time for a change in my experimentation. I spent a lot of time and > energy with the sodium carbonate electrolyte and DC current without being > able to report any proven excess power. There is evidence that the Borax > electrolyte might lead to more definitive results so that is what I began > using again today. Earlier I started using Borax after finding that table > salt was a terribly corrosive material. I used the Borax for several days > as it slowly ate away at my positively connected electrodes before I > decided to go to the sodium carbonate. I stuck with the sodium carbonate > for so long since I was mainly concerned about the hydrogen loading of the > cathode which should have been similar with either electrolyte. > > Today, I rewound a transformer to yield 21 volts AC RMS. This is an > ideal way to drive the system with AC since the transformer automatically > isolates it from the AC mains and leads to a safe experiment. I am using > 21 volts because that is all I obtained with the transformer core with > which I started when I placed as many turns as possible (36) in the > secondary slot with the wire size that was convenient. I was worried that > this might not be enough voltage, but found that I could still drive the > cell with between 1 and 2 amps RMS depending upon the spacing between the > electrodes. > > The joule losses within the transformer are quite low and it is in no > danger of overheating. The cell is receiving around 40 watts of power > which is within reason. I am using a Pyrex dish for my cell, the same one > that I have been using for several days. It is open and wide so the cell > temperature is fairly low due to large heat loss. I am curious as to > whether or not I get the strange sparks that seemed so prevalent with my > earlier DC system. I have noticed that there is a lot less gas being > released at the electrodes due to the AC drive current. > > The AC drive current does not appear to cause the green deposits that > were so evident with the DC current. I initially allowed the green mess to > be plated upon one of the test nickels attached to the positive DC supply > connection. After a period of time the green material was shaken off and a > dark deposit replaced it as the current increased. I do not know what > material is plating that nickel, but it allows for good conductivity. I > placed my old reliable nickel on the other electrode for the AC testing. > The poor nickel has been undergoing electrolysis for many days, has been > heated red hot and quenched 5 times, has been soaked in a mild acid for a > couple of days, and then sanded to roughen its surface. I am not sure what > else I can do to make it more miserable! > > Dave > > > >
