David, I never had any problems either with an open system or a closed system. Just remember that hydrogen like to burn straight up, so if running covered, be sure the cover can be easily removed upward. When I ran closed, I used a large cork at the top, and all the gasses tended to recombine it the space between the top and the liquid. Since you have already saw a flame and sparks, you might want to submerge the jar in a water bath for a calorimetry measurements as well as to provide some safety. Just be careful, be prepared and use your better judgement.
Best Regards, Chuck On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 2:30 PM, David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> wrote: > Last evening I made a smaller version of the electrolysis bath and the > nickel overheated and melted the plastic container at the contact point > again as it was sparking and spitting. The heat may be the result of joule > heating or some other process as the current (3 amps for this test) is > concentrated to a small region of the nickel due to a heavy coating of some > unknown thick white material over most of its surface . Since I want to > experiment further along this interesting line, I need to use a more robust > container that does not melt at the temperatures encountered. > > I found a small glass jar that measures 2 inches diameter by 4 inches > high and placed the electrodes within. After I had started the > electrolysis, I began to think of safety from gas explosion. This system > is capable of capturing hydrogen much better that the old open ones before > since the walls are higher and the exit path narrow in proportion. > > I know that I will have sparks and small flames as with the open system > so now I would like to know if there is significant danger of explosion. > Is anyone aware of reports of a relatively low volume open to the > air glass cell exploding and causing injury or damage to the surroundings? > Most of the jar volume will likely be filled with a mix of hydrogen and > oxygen plus room air. I have not calculated the amount of energy contained > within the captured hydrogen since a bad calculation could be dangerous. > Please give me guidance before I reconnect this beast as it now is on > standby. > > Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> > To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> > Sent: Mon, Oct 15, 2012 8:45 pm > Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started > > One final note that I want to include. I allowed the experiment to go > into the unusual mode for the third time and made some measurements. The > electrolyte was boiling as in the first two observations and I also noted > sparks being emitted. > > Unfortunately, I let the system become too hot and it melted the bottom > of my test container allowing the electrolyte to leak out. After this > episode, I obtained a smaller container and started another round of > testing. I will need to compete another calibration before useful data can > be obtained. > > A most interesting afternoon. > > Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> > To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> > Sent: Mon, Oct 15, 2012 5:35 pm > Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started > > I have an interesting addition to this report. After I cleaned up the > deposits and added water and electrolyte I let my experiment continue > electrolysis. The effect happened again with some interesting differences. > I noticed that the thin layer that coated the electrolyte bath came in the > form of small floating islands about the size of a standard pencil lead. > These came together to form a film over the surface. A much thicker > deposit formed upon the active nickel that is like a form of crust. > > Then I noticed that sparks were being emitted from the edge of the > active nickel! The sparks came intermittently and the intensity of the > sparks varied. I saw actual flames on rare occasions which had me alarmed. > Perhaps this is caused by the hydrogen becoming ignited at that electrode. > The water between electrodes was at boiling temperature. > > I noticed that the supply voltage was varying by a large degree in the > fashion of bubble bursting which could be due to the reduced path for ions > to the nickel that is now covered with the white hard deposit. > > Next, I tapped the deposit mostly off of the nickels and added water to > the bath. The surface deposit was stirred up so that things are returning > toward normal. There still remains a layer of the white deposit on the top > of the active nickel from which bubbles of hydrogen are exiting. > > This experiment is getting more interesting all the time. I hope to get > to the bottom of the observations, but I have no idea what is occurring. > > Dave > > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> > To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> > Sent: Mon, Oct 15, 2012 3:54 pm > Subject: Re: [Vo]:New Experiment Started > > I had an exciting afternoon. I replaced my control nickel with the 40 > plus hour heat treated one that resembles an old penny now and began > electrolysis. > > The reading of voltage was a bit unusual after the first hour of > operation so I replenished the water and added a little additional sodium > carbonate to allow the system to reach equilibrium. Just before I started > to make the standard readings after approximately an hour of additional > electrolysis a friend called me on the telephone so I was diverted. We > spoke for I would guess about half an hour until line noise convinced me to > go upstairs to accept another call. Both of us changed telephones but the > noise was still bad as we continued our conversation. > > Perhaps 30 minutes later we finished the call and I went back to make > the measurements. My system was behaving very strange. I noticed that the > bath had a thin white layer of material on its surface and a thick deposit > was on the test nickel. This deposit was white and crystalline which I > would guess is some type of carbonate. It was also very evident that a > loud hissing noise was originating from the test system. > > I broke a hole through the thin layer covering the bath easily with my > finger and noticed that it was very hot to the touch. The test nickel was > also extremely hot. I decided to make the usual measurements and saw that > the current was within normal range at 2.5 amps while the voltage had > increased to 12.57 volts which is about 2 volts above typical. The liquid > was reading 80 degrees C which is much higher than normal. With the > measured delta C I would expect to have 86 watts of power being dissipated > according to previous calibrations. The actual input was calculated as > 31.425 watts. > > This will clearly be a significant measurement of excess power if it > holds up to scrutiny. I suspect that the thin film on the surface of the > electrolyte is acting as an insulator or some other issue is contributing > to the strange results. > > I stirred up the electrolyte, cleaned off the nickel deposit and added > additional water and sodium carbonate to see if the effect arises again. > Regardless of whether or not this proves to be elusive, I had an > interesting episode! > > By the way, I turned off the power to my test system and the line noise > continued so I suspect the noise was generated by some other problem > besides radiation emissions from my device (I sure hope so). > > Dave >