For this particular thread we were concentrating upon very large black holes. You can have the tiny ones.
Dave -----Original Message----- From: ChemE Stewart <cheme...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 27, 2012 8:34 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT]:Question About Event Horizon Guys, Not all black holes are cold, the "small" ones are extremely hot. Unless you only believe in large ones... A black hole weighing 1.2x10e12 kg is about a million K with a radius of 1.8x10e-10 meters. If the sun spit that at earth it might orbit around a few months and collapse atmospheric gasses around it and create a hurricane... http://xaonon.dyndns.org/hawking/ On Thursday, December 27, 2012, David Roberson wrote: Notice that I carefully specified that the photon left from a point that is extremely close to but outside of the horizon. There is no problem with this location as far as the radial outward path of a photon. If I had said what you suggest the it started within the horizon, then there is an issue. So, the photon as before continues outward from this side of the horizon toward the far away observers. I asked the question about where the energy ends up because I suspect that it becomes distributed throughout space in some manner. One might draw a conclusion that space is stretched out from the horizon due to some form of linear dimension dilation so that the COE is preserved. This is not completely evident and I do not know if it is assumed in any theory except possibly for the curvature of space associated with general relativity. It becomes increasingly complicated if we must deal with dilation of both space and time. My photon thought experiment tends to support that supposition. If one follows the logic in reverse the spaceman sees that any thermal noise or other radiation incident upon the hole from the outside would become very intense within this region near the boundary. You would not want to visit this area for a vacation. Your question about the existence of black holes is a good one. There have been measurements of the effect of one at the center of our galaxy on nearby stars which is quite convincing. Some of the enormous beams of energy being emitted by other galaxies in opposite directions from their axis seem to have not other conceivable mechanisms so far. I have wondered about how matter is added to a black hole once it reaches a point where time dilation becomes so great that we observe it freezing on the way in. Like our test probe ship, this incoming matter should be frozen in some manner until the radiation from it red shifts all the way to zero. Of course that is what we observe at a distance which is the key. Lets start with something simple. A large star that is not quite massive enough to become an assumed black hole behaves in ways that we are familiar. My statement begs an interesting question. How does a star appear to a far away observer if it has a mass that is just below that required for it to become a black hole? I would guess that the outer edge of such a beast would exhibit enormous gravitational flux and the associated time dilation. It really makes me wonder what happens to normal radiation that is emitted from the surface. Should we assume that it becomes red shifted as it travels our direction to a very large extent. That energy leaving the massive star becomes trapped within the space surrounding it to a significant degree; how is this possible unless space itself has expanded to accommodate it? Does anyone on vortex know of the observations of any stars that fall into this category? Perhaps they appear like red giants at our location-interesting question. The obvious solution is that they explode before this occurs. Is that their fate? Speculation can be fun to engage in, but I am not sure that it is productive to keep alive a thread for this long unless other members of the vortex become interested. It does not seem fair to them for us to borrow most of the bandwidth for so long so I plan to return to the main topic very soon. I have enjoyed our thought processes and it is relaxing after I finally competed a good model for the MFMP cell behavior. Dave -----Original Message----- From: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax <a...@lomaxdesign.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com>; vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Thu, Dec 27, 2012 6:45 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT]:Question About Event Horizon At 01:47 AM 12/27/2012, David Roberson wrote: >I am thinking along the line of the second concept that you list at >the end. The photon would cease to exist at any energy if allowed >to continue by itself from the spaceship that is infinitesimally >close to the boundary. So, instead, the second ship intercepts it ... This is a concept that has the photon rising from the event horizon, but being slowed until "ceases to exist." But that would violate conservation of energy, for starters. Rather, the way the event horizon is described is that no path for light from inside the horizon crosses it. This *appears* to conflict with views of the event horizon as being located differently with different observers. I really think we need to back up, practically all the way. Why do we think there would be black holes?
